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NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

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NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby salt6 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:29 am

You would think these guys buying the guns would be prosecuted for a crime and the mayor convicted of conspiracy.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110201/D9L3MSSO0.html

NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona


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Jan 31, 9:22 PM (ET)

By SAMANTHA GROSS

NEW YORK (AP) - Weeks after the shooting in Tucson, sellers at an Arizona gun show allowed undercover investigators hired by New York City to buy semiautomatic pistols even after they said they probably couldn't pass a background check, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Monday.

"After Tucson, you would think that people, particularly at a gun show in Arizona, would have been much more careful in enforcing the law," he said. "That unfortunately in some cases wasn't the case."

Bloomberg has authorized similar sting operations around the country as part of a push for tougher federal laws to help keep guns off the streets of New York.

But in the sensitive aftermath of the shooting Jan. 8 that killed six people and critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, the mayor was questioned about the time and place of his hidden-camera investigation, a $100,000 operation conducted almost clear across the country.

"Let me get this straight: From New York City, they are going to send people to Arizona to look into this?" said state Sen. Ron Gould, a Republican. "They might take a look a little closer to home if they are concerned about guns getting in their state."

Meanwhile, Democratic Arizona state Sen. Steve Gallardo introduced a bill Monday to require background checks for all sales at gun shows.

The operators of the Phoenix gun show where the investigators made their buys on Jan. 23 issued a statement Monday saying all exhibitors at its shows are required to follow state and federal gun laws.

"Mayor Bloomberg and his 'task force' have no legal authority in the state of Arizona, or in any other place in America except New York City," said the statement from the Crossroads of the West Gun Shows. "These forays into America's heartland committing blatant acts to entrap otherwise innocent gun owners is an unlawful scheme that is created by Bloomberg's task force."

The private investigators, wearing concealed video cameras, were sold the 9 mm guns even after telling two separate sellers they probably couldn't pass background checks.

While many sellers at gun shows are not required under federal law to perform background checks, it is illegal for them to sell a weapon if they have reason to believe the buyer wouldn't be able to pass one, the mayor said.

The mayor said that without mandatory background checks, gun shows had become "magnets for criminals," and called for federal action to close what he said were dangerous loopholes in the law. Last week, Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., proposed federal legislation that would require background checks for all firearm purchases at gun shows.

Jim Cavanaugh, a retired agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, where he was in charge of the Nashville division, said he didn't believe the sales described by the mayor were, in fact, illegal.

"It's not a prosecutable offense" because the purchasers were not truly felons, minors or drug abusers and because they didn't tell the sellers definitively that they were, Cavanaugh said. As for Bloomberg, he said, "ATF has asked him not to do it and to please coordinate with ATF if he thinks a violation is occurring."

In 2007, the U.S. Justice Department warned in a letter to City Hall that such civilian operations risk "legal liabilities" and can "unintentionally interrupt or jeopardize ongoing criminal investigations."

The mayor conceded that most illegal guns in New York City are coming from states along the East Coast, but said the rampage in Tucson would bring national attention to the investigation.

The city-hired investigators also obtained a Glock gun and 33-round extended magazine similar to those authorities have said Jared Loughner used to open fire as Giffords met with constituents outside a supermarket.

Investigators have said Loughner legally purchased his ammunition the morning of the attack. He had cleared a federal background check and legally bought a Glock 19 at a big-box sporting goods store two months earlier.

Bloomberg's office said all the investigators were Arizona residents and broke no laws.

The mayor, who heads a national coalition of mayors advocating stronger gun control, argues that it is necessary to bring his battle across state lines because illegal guns from states with more lenient rules consistently find their way onto New York City's streets.

About 90 percent of the 5,000 guns confiscated by city police last year were from out of state, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said.

An almost identical 2009 sting operation targeted seven gun shows in Tennessee, Ohio and Nevada. As a result, organizers of 35 gun shows around the country - including the 1,300-table Big Reno Show in Nevada - have agreed to end all no-background-check sales, Bloomberg said.

In 2006, more city-hired undercover investigators posed as gun buyers making so-called straw purchases in Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Virginia, with one person filling out the paperwork for another person's gun purchase.

ATF spokesman Drew Wade said Monday that he could not comment on whether the agency was investigating the city's findings.
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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby Bil » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:04 pm

Those were my thoughts exactly when I saw this last night-prosecute the buyers and the mayor! On a smaller scale,a friend of mine runs a small quickymart typw store,The liqour board is always trying to set him up.One night he saw a suspicious car outside,went out the back,and heard the agent giving instructions to an underage kid on how to get beer with a fake ID.My friend kept the kid talking while his father called the local cops,pretended it was a real underage buy,and caused a big mess for the agent.Now they leave him alone.
There is way too much crime on the streets of new York without this publicity hound with a personal agenda to be spending scarce tax dollars to make a gesture of this sort.Run him and his buddies out of Arizona on a rail! ---bil
"I dream of a world where I can buy alcohol,tobacco and firearms from the same drive-up window,and use them all on the way home from work!" Dogbert

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby www.Prussia.us » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:36 pm

The great mayor is a total bag of rubbish, he is a trans-nationalist, open-borders, anti-2nd Amendment, pro-outsourcing, piece of human garbage.

If he cared about crime, look to his backyard, Wall Street, where the banksters like Citi, Morgan Stanley, Chase, Goldman Sachs, etc.., undertook the largest transfer of wealth in human history by selling bogus (but insured) financial instruments to hedge funds, public and private pension funds, and 401k managers, then watching them melt :shock: , then collecting the insurance (credit-default swaps) :? , then telling Congress “bail us out or we tank the entire pension system/economy, :( ” 'oh then I nearly forgot, pass around billions in bonuses :( :( , but why would Bloomberg, dems, the GOP, and the Tea Party for that matter, turn a blind eye to unbridled-deregulated Wall Street depravity and cupidity run amok, 'oh that’s right they are part of the problem :puk:

It so much easier to attack our gun rights :puk: :puk:
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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby Bil » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:14 am

What are you trying to say here-that the entire political/financial system is corrupt and centered solely on it own benefit? And to hell with the rest of us? :shock: Well spoken! We need to educate more people as to what is really going on.Although the information is there for all to see,most people are content to be fooled over and over,as long as they can plop on the couch and watch their favorite Hollywood hogwash.Why be confused with facts and reality,lets see who is on 'Dancing With Dimwits' tonight.
When it all goes to crap,the people will get what they deserve for their inattention to the truth.The rest of us that really see will at least be warned and prepared.
And don't think any of those others will be getting any sympathy or support from me.
Let's see New York handle its problems then,when they are stuck with 'leaders' like Bloomberg and his ilk.
"I dream of a world where I can buy alcohol,tobacco and firearms from the same drive-up window,and use them all on the way home from work!" Dogbert

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby mksshoot » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:09 pm

Greetings, this is my first post but I have followed the Forum for a couple of years since buying my WLA Md53 and joining just recently. I have to say that the information available here is top notch! After seeing this Bloomberg thing I have to say this, I'm an FFL and I do a fair amount of buisness at gun shows locally and for the most part the vast majority of people are legitimate gun owners and buyers. Anybody who sells firearms as a licensed person knows they must run the background checks as well as follow federal,state and local laws and believe me it can be confusing at best. Individuals who sell firearms though can be at a disadvantage when it comes to laws concerning firearms. While it is perfectly legal for an individual to sell firearms at gun shows most places (they are considered personal property like a used car) people need to be very carefull who they sell to. At minimum get the buyers ID- and I mean their drivers license number and social security number as well as address and employer.COVER YOUR BUTT! If the person won't give you their info or if they give you the creeps for any reason then DON"T SELL! There are enough people and politicians who want to put a damper on our already diminishing freedoms,don't give them a reason to discredit us. I sat this to the anti -American,anti-gun,anti 2nd amendment,anti-freedom crowd that you can't go swiming in a cesspool and not come out smelling like one!

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby Sd.kfz.173 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:54 pm

When the melt down does happen, I'll bet der mayor has a large group of armed security at his disposal while the pesants are eating each other!! :puk: :puk: :puk:


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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby Bil » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:51 am

Ever notice that every once in a while,there is a small article in the back of the papers,where some anti-gun,liberal loudmouth gets in trouble for...having a gun!! Usually it is because they don't know how to use it and shoot someone/something.They always explain that they 'need' it,because their political positions make the 'crazies' mad!
In other words,do as I say,not as I do! I have an article somewhere ,interview with some wacko that strongly feels that Americans should have travel restrictions,and that the internal combustion engines should be phased out for electric cars.When asked what he drove,it was some big boat gas guzzler. He explained that his work spreading the message was too important for him to drive some slow,cramped crapbox,it was good enough for the rest of us.
These people really do think we are not capable of making decisions for ourselves,that they are much smarter than us,and they are NEEDED to ensure we can make it through the day,and be protected from ourselves.But they shouldn't have to follow the same rules.After all,they are the 'Elite' class! :puk: ---bil
OOPS-almost puked on myself-should have put more space in there! :?
"I dream of a world where I can buy alcohol,tobacco and firearms from the same drive-up window,and use them all on the way home from work!" Dogbert

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby www.Prussia.us » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:48 pm

Excellent point BIL,

Looks like Patricians vs. Plebeians, now where can we all get some of those stinky-seashell-purple-dyed robes to wear, so that we plebeians can make the rules instead?? :lol:
“… corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, … until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”

- Abraham Lincoln (Republican), Nov. 21, 1864

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby Bil » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:21 am

DA's house?? :lol: ---bil
"I dream of a world where I can buy alcohol,tobacco and firearms from the same drive-up window,and use them all on the way home from work!" Dogbert

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby 42rocker » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:51 am

At DA's??? Bil are you sure about that?? I thought the dresses came from there not the robes...

Wait, DA does do the Roman reacting also... Ok, sorry about that....

On the gun note I hope that they arrest the "buyers" for a straw purchase.... Cop's or not..

Later 42rocker

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby Bil » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:11 am

That would be great! New Hampshire is real big into the alcohol business.They even have rest areas near the Mass.border with liquor stores! Most small towns on the border have cheap booze shops,and folks from Mass. come up to stock up and save.About 10 years ago,Mass. sent unmarked cars to watch who was buying,and then busted them when they came into Mass.Seems if you drink there,they want your money.
This didn't sit well with the booze-money-loving folks in NH,so... there is a law against loitering around outside a liqour store.Sure enough,the undercover guys all got hauled in! Of course,it was explained as a 'misunderstanding', but it worked.
Seems the same kind of tactic could work here. On a similar note (AZ gun sales),the ATF has been watching 'strawman' buys of quantities of long guns.They were tracking them,and lost track of a bunch.Next time they showed up was when a Border Patrol agent was murdered.So they knew these guns were going to the wrong people,yet it wasn't important enough to stop the sales.Maybe Mayor Bloomberg could help out. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.But it is,and it isn't. ---bil
"I dream of a world where I can buy alcohol,tobacco and firearms from the same drive-up window,and use them all on the way home from work!" Dogbert

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby 42rocker » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:55 am

Ok, lets go back a few day's ago when a friend of mine Uncle Dan as we called him, did it.

Think about this if you will, Dan is sitting in his shop and someone comes in and sits down and offers to sell him some interesting "warm" stuff. Dan is cool about it. Reach's down trips the silent alarm and pulls a 1911a1 45cal on the party sitting in front of him and tells him to sit down and shut up. As the story goes from about 4 feet away a 1911 barrel looks about 3 inches wide so most folks do what is told to them. Sooo a few minutes pass during which a group of city police get there in squad cars, lights a flashing, get out and go running in past a lot of county police that are waiting for their insider to press the button so they can go storming in and arrest Dan buying stolen goods. Of course the city police go in drawing down on the """county police officer """... Opp's, wait thats a police officer.... No, thats a just a person selling stolen goods, no wait, wait what who...... Guess who did end up going to jail, my friend Dan, for drawing down on someone... After an interesting week or two things went away. Another interesting follow up to this was same county officers set up another dealer in the same county, charged in arrested and took stuff, boy did they go after the wrong party.... Normally the police found than they could run over the dealer with a stolen goods deal, wrong... They picked the wrong dealer.... This dealer had money. I got to see the law suit that was given to the county police dept.... Lots of fun, opp's here and opp's there....
1st they offer the dealer to plea fine and 2 years probation
2nd same smaller fine 1 year probation
3rd ok, no fine 3 months probation
4th we will just go with 1 month probation..
Dealer's lawyer said no....
Can't officially say because the end result was a gag order on all sides with a small 6 figure check given to someone, that's if my memory still works....

Such fun....

Later 42rocker

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby mksshoot » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:01 pm

More horror stories- A dealer in our area ran afoul of the ATF over delay's on Federal Background Checks about a year ago. Long story short,the man is no longer in buisness and his inventory of over a half a million went away in several 4 horse trailers on consinement to some sporting chain up north. [diz]

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby PortHolio » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:41 pm

what an outstanding forum. I remember that Machine Gun News subscribers back in the day were always a smart diverse lot, and I am proud to see that type of tradition alive and well here.

I find the ultimate irony here to be that NYC is the cause of it's own illegal handgun issues. It is not the lenient neighboring states that cause problems, it's the constant demand for them in NYC and the ban there preventing legal aquisition. Rather than taxing and regulating a visible marketplace for a constitutionally legal product, they have driven it underground into a criminal market with enormously greater profit potential. The more illegal it is, the more profit there is and more attractive it becomes to gun runners.

This is a misappropriation of public funds for a self serving political agenda to manufacture "proof" that americas gun owners are feeding the crime in mexico and around the US. Where I work, if one department was raising hell in another department, they would get their budget from corporate taken away.....they obviously have more $$$ than they need, and are having trouble finding legitimate activities to spend it on.

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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby DARIVS ARCHITECTVS » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:49 pm

Bil wrote:DA's house?? :lol: ---bil


Cheap shot, Bil. I suppose you're only saying that to see if I'm listening. :roll:

Back on topic, I'd say the democrats will stop at nothing to soil the reputation of gun dealers to try to get some moral high ground for closing them down. We have to STOP THESE BASTARDS as well as the spendthrift Republicans. EVERYONE make sure you get to the polls next election!
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Re: NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona

Postby Bil » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:33 pm

A bit slow on the uptake? :? Only 5 months-the new house must be keeping you busy! :lol: And yes to the serious stuff you said! ---bil
"I dream of a world where I can buy alcohol,tobacco and firearms from the same drive-up window,and use them all on the way home from work!" Dogbert


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