Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Anything MG34 related.

Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby Blanksguy » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:47 am

I thought that I would start this "Thread" here with basic information on Blank-Adapting the MG34 and the different Blank-Adaptors that are currently available.
If members believe that this information should be turned into a "sticky" for easier access....please talk with one of the MODs or Salt6.

BLANK-ADAPTING the MG34:
(NOTE: These "systems" can be set up using 8x57mm Blanks and/or 7.62x51mmNATO/.308 Blanks by switching out parts and adjusting system).

Methods to Blank-Adapt the MG34:
1: Live-Barrel with:
A: Restricted Booster-Cup/"nozzle" under the flash-hider, or:
B: Guiette Mfg. 1-Pcs. Blank-Adaptor.

2: 2-pcs. Blank-Firing Barrel-Assembly with restriction in the forward half of the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly inside the muzzle. Does not use a booster-cup/"nozzle" under the flash-hider.

Pros and Cons of the different styles/systems for Blank-Adapting the MG34:
1: MG34 Live-Barrel with restricted Booster-Cup/"Nozzle" under the flash-hider:
This system is probable the cheapest to set up and/or make if you are dollars short.
Requires a new-made Blank-Boster-Cup/Nozzle that you can install different allen-bolts from the inside of the boster-cup/nozzle driller for different size restrictions/BFA Hole-Sizes.
Problems are that it does not adapt well to the weaker 7.62x51mmNATO/.308 British/Austrian Blanks. It also does not make as much noise using the same Blanks in the other "systems" due to the requirement to use much of its pressure produced during firing to push the entire-weight of the live barrel to the rear to unlock the bolt and move bolt and fired blank to the rear-most position to eject the fired case. Less noise is also heard with any 8x57mm Blank for same reasons of overcoming the barrel-weight.

2: MG34 Live-Barrel with "Guiette-Mfg." MG34 1-pcs. Blank-Adaptor:
I have not had a chance to test this Blank-Adaptor out with Blanks yet.....it appears well made....and is a complete assembly that replaces the barrel-bearing abd Booster-Cup/Nozzle. It also does not have the four pressure relief holes drilled out on the barrel-bearing rear portion which would indicate to me that less pressure will be lost during operation.....this will require a larger BFA Hole-Size at the front of this Blank-Adaptor than the modified Booster-Cut in #1 above. Guiette Mfg. MG34 Blank-Adaptor came drilled and taped for 1/2x20TPI set-screws in the front.....three (3) were provided with the Blank-Adaptor as was an allen-wrench for changing out the allen-set-screws.
Well-made and arrived in "Blued" finish.
Present costs: $115 PPd (delivered).
Possible problems may still be the barrel-weight to overcome.........but should be slightly louder than the use of a restricted Booster-Cup and a live MG34 Barrel-Bearing using the same Blanks as above.

3: The 2-pcs. MG34 Blank-Barrel-Assembly:
Slightly higher costs due to the cost of the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly.
The ability to be the loudest of the systems listed as it does not have to overcome the weight of a full "live" barrel.....it only moves the rear 1/4 of the Blank-Barrel-Assembly to the rear to unlock the bolt (less-weight=more noise and faster RPM at the front).
Does not use a Booster-Cup/Nozzle as the front 3/4 of the barrel remains still/does not move.
(NOTE: Do not try to use this system with the addition of a Blank-Adapted Booster-Cup/Nozzle restricted......as it appears the forward 3/4 of what is suppose to be the stationary blank-barrel starts to move to the rear while the rear-part is starting to move to the forward position....they bounce together sometimes causing misfires and feed-related problems).

And last for today....
Where can I get these parts?
1: Make them yourself on a lathe (booster-cup/nozzles).....or maybe a "board-member" can do a run of these if you provide the required barrels with "extensions" (2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies).
2: I had "Duffy's Gun Room over in Sparks, Maryland make up mine...so that I had one forward barrel-section...and two rear sections. One in 8x57mm and the second in 7.62x51mmNATO/.308. POC is Wilhelm Helfrich. I had to provide the barrels for his use.
3: I believe that some of these are also available from different vendors from time-to-time in "Shotgun News".

Be safe, RichardS.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

PS: Let the "MODs" know if you would like more information posted. We have the ability and information that we can post such as weapon set-up.........information on feed-tray modification........how to test-fire and make adjustments........troubleshooting if needed.

PSS: I went back in today and added photos of the different MG34 Blank-Firing "systems", and parts as shown below.
Maybe someone would like to make these up for us as a group-buy?
Attachments
MG34-BFA-FeedTray-6.jpg
MG34-BFA-FeedTray-5.jpg
MG34-BFA-5.jpg
MG34-BFA-4.jpg
MG34-BFA-3.jpg
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Postby Blanksguy » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:23 pm

I thought that I would "bump" this Blank-Adapting information back to the top of the "threads" (with new photos of the parts) to see if anyone was interested in information like this ?

Maybe someone would want to do a group-buy of the 2-pcs. Blank-Firing-Barrels with two different rear sections for group-members/board-members to buy? (IE: One in 8x57mm and the second in 7.62x51mmNATO/.308 Win.).

Regards, RichardS.
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blank adapters-308?

Postby TMANNN34 » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:37 am

Howdy! Great info and pics of blank systems. I have recently aquired an original blank barrel assy.from interordnance for relatively cheap,looks great,but have not tested it yet.
I would be very interested in some kind of 308 adapter peice buy!
Also possibly could look into making some myself for sale.(I have full access to the machine shop I work at) No idea how much a run would cost yet if attempted. Will need to do some research.
Great thread will keep watching.
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Postby Blanksguy » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:39 am

Hi Troy,

A "guesstimate" to start making (and they will need to see digital-photos posted in the "for-sale-section of the quality/style of your work) might be about:

1: MG34/SA34: 8x57mm 2-pcs. sets = about 2.
.308 chambered sets = about 2.
Dual-Caliber-sets (IE: 1-forward section, and 2-rear sections) = 3.

2: MG42/SA42: 8x57mm 2-pcs. sets = about 3.
.308 chambered sets = about 4.
Dual-Caliber sets = about 5.

NOTE: They will not want them with the additional cooling-fin cuts.....98% of these young men/women will want them to have the outward appearance of a live-barel.

Also, all of the forward-section will have to have the flair at the rear of the forward-section to insure that they do not move forward.

Regards, RichardS.
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blank build

Postby TMANNN34 » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:31 pm

Howdy all! In reply to above post. If I do a build on the blank adapters it would be the rear section peices only! No barrels. If I did them they would be identical to a wartime sample,except for bore work of course! The locking collar would be the most work involved(milled ears, iterupted threads,heat treated etc...) I have to finish my reciever first then do some testing.
Have a good day all -will be watching and working!
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308 blank adapters.

Postby TMANNN34 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:09 pm

Howdy all! I have made some 308 adapters for the mg-34 2 pc blank barrel assy. My friend has tested them and they lock in and fire fine. He had ejection problems but he is using a booster cone rectrictor!!! I will have him test it without it to see if that takes care of it(ammo may be too weak???).
I can have 20 to 30 of them ready I a month or so if tests are conclusive and there is a demand for them.
NOTE!! It will only be the long pc that screws into locking collar that will be made. You will have to use your own locking collar!
Price will be approx. 35.00
I will post pics soon!
Any feedback welcomed! :) :)
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Postby Blanksguy » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:31 am

Hi Troy,
From what you are telling me that your "friend" is using .... it sounds like he is trying to use a 3-pcs. system .......... which does not work.

1: He needs to use either the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel which is "restricted" in the muzzle of the barrel..........OR:

2: He needs to use a live barrel with a "restricted" Booster-Cup/Nozzle.
Note....if he tries to use the three-pcs. together....the residual-pressure between the booster-cup/nozzle and the muzzle tries to forse the front of the 2-pcs. blank-barrel to the rear as the rear-section/chamber-end is trying to move forward. (Note: the live-barrel/restricted booster-cup system does not normally work well with the weaker .308 Blanks due to barrel-weight).

I believe that the 3-pcs. systems being sold by some vendors are because they do not understand how these blank-firing systems work. They probable received the Blank-adaptors mixed in with 2-pcs. Blank-Barrels when they received their surplus shipments........and thought that they went to together....but this is not correct......just a "marketing-idea" to sell surplus to unknowing buyers. "Yep, joe.....put three pcs. in the ad and sell it for a higher price.......sounds good".

Ejection-Problems with Blanks:
1: If his MG34/SA34 fires live ammo good....then it can be made to fire Blanks.
2: If his MG34/SA34 ejects brass good when firing live ammo......and not with Blanks, it is only due to the bolt-assembly not coming back far enough to have the ejector-pin hit the case off of the bolt face. Use a slightly smaller restriction by .005" to .010" and try again.

Your products/rear-sections will sell if made correctly and the buyers have the ability to "fit" them by machining their MG34 barrel into the front-half and using their old extension..........my suggestion would be an "exchange-system....where the buyers sends you an MG34 barrel with barrel-extention on the end and payment........"YOU" take the MG34 barrel in, and do the work in you shop and send the "working-2-pcs. Blank-Barrel back to the buyer....fitted and military head-spaced on the loose-side. Most of these guys do not have access to a lathe....so this would be a "plus"....and help you sell more in either 8x57mm or 7.62x51mmNATO/.308.

Note.....When using those weaker 7.62x51mmNATO/.308 British or Austrian Blanks....the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel restricted in the muzzle (and NO BOOSTER-CUP/NOZZLE) is the way to go.....but most MG34s/SA34s will need a spare feed-tray modified with an adaptor w/tunnel as show in my photo above. ....but when those Blanks are less that $.05 a shot today....it will all pay for itself after a few reenactments when you fire off several thousands of Blanks each event.

Have fun.....and please address questions of this nature here to the Blank-Adapting section of this Board. E-mailing me (although I do not mind the questions) only helps one person....questions addressed on the Board will help a lot of other readers.
Regards, RichardS.
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Postby TMANNN34 » Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:28 am

Thanks for all your great insight blaknsguy! Will work on getting blanks firing correctly now! Also will need some dimentions on that feed tray modification (I didnt see it anywhere else on the forum?)
Take care and happy shooting everyone!
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Postby Blanksguy » Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:47 am

Troy,
You might try going to our "Home-Page" and look at the row of lettered blocks at the top of the page.

"Click" over top of the block marked "MG42 FAQ"......

When the next page comes up....."Click" over the block marked "BASICS".......

When the next page comes up......"Click" over the "BLANK ADAPTING THE MG34 AND MG42".

There should be a five page write-up come into view at that time.

***NOTE: The shorter feed-tray spacer was an early design that we used and usually only works with 8x57mm Blanks made from reformed 30/06 or .270 Win. Brass.

Regards, RichardS.
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Re..Guiette Mfg. 1-Pc. Blank-Adaptor

Postby mp40oli » Tue May 15, 2007 11:28 pm

Hello.. I noticed that this was a pretty old thread.. Has anyone had a chance to try out the Guiette Mfg. 1-Pc Blank-Adaptor for the mg34??? I would like some feedback on it in regards to the reliability compared to just replacing the cone...Thanks, Oli
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Postby Blanksguy » Wed May 16, 2007 5:14 pm

mp40oli,
Yes.......the Guiette, Mfg. MG34-Blank-Booster requires a 1-pcs. "live" barrel, and will not work properly with a 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel.
If you look at the photo of all of the different parts that I provided......it shows the Guiette, Mfg. Blank-Booster on the lower left side.

It will work with very strong/"hotter" Blanks.....but not with the weaker types of Blanks.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
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Postby mp40oli » Wed May 16, 2007 5:19 pm

Thanks for the fast answer..Would you say its more reliable than replacing just the cone?,,,oli
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Postby Blanksguy » Wed May 16, 2007 5:43 pm

mp40oli,
When you ask "is it more reliable than just replacing the cone(?)"....I would guess that you are asking if it would run more reliably by installing the Guiette, Mfg. MG34 Blank-Adaptor than just replacing the live Booster-Cup/"Nozzle" with a Blank-Firing Booster-Cup/"Nozzle" that is restricted.

This is a "general" type question.....and without knowing what Blanks you would be using, I would have to say "maybe...maybe not".
You will have to let me know what Blanks you will be using.....and if the Blanks will require a feed-tray spacer before I could go into more detail.

Next, if you are determined to by one of the Guiette, Mfg. MG34 Blank-Adaptors ..... I will sell you the one I have that I bought for testing (with the Blanks that I manufacture) and review of this product. $100 PPd to your street-address.....which is below cost.

There are two critical areas in getting an MG34 to run well with Blanks:
1: Proper/adequate restriction to operate the weapon....and:
2: Correct feed-tray modifications to feed the Blanks from the feed-tray into the chamber of the MG34.

The best.......loudest way....... that is most reliable ........is with the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly (uses less force to move the parts which gives you a larger BFA Hole-Size out front).....with out the Booster-Cup/"Nozzle".....and with larger feed-tray-spacer that I have shown tac-welded to my feed-tray in the photo.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
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PS: Yep....I know....I need to make up a "line-drawing" of how to make the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies.
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby mp40oli » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:18 pm

What BFA hole size should I start with on a 2 piece barrel assembly? I don't want to drill too small and cause damage from excessive pressure. I don't know how strong the load is yet...thanks...oli
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby mp40oli » Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:02 pm

I should revise that..Its the allan plug I'm drilling, not the BFA ,its not required.
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby Blanksguy » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:28 pm

mp40oli in Canada,
Back to the "beginning" of your question.....

What "Blanks" are you going to use (?)
.........this will tell us where you need to start for BFA Hole-Size/Restriction.
Without knowing this critical information.....I would only be able to tell you to start with the largest hole that you can drill through that allen-set-screw......which will be about .250" (1/4" Drill-Size) if you have counter-drilled/taped the muzzle for 1/2 x 20 TPI "US" Allen-Set-Screws.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby mp40oli » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:33 pm

Blanks are good MG 8mm . Made specifically for mg. The barrell is drilled for a 3/8 x24 thread plug. Thanks for helping.
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby Blanksguy » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:02 am

mp40oli in Canada,

If you let me know who made them (?)......or what the amout of powder (Grains-in-weight) in the Blanks is for the total of 5 or 10 (so that I can get an average-weight of powder and be more accurate) I can give you a better idea of a safe place to start.
........the "Blanks are good MG 8mm" you stated doesn't let me know much information to be able to help you.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby mp40oli » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:55 am

I don't know the grain weight..I will try to find out.. They are from Joe Swanson if that helps.....He said they are made specifically for the mg for the correct head spacing. Thanks again.
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby Blanksguy » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:53 pm

mp40oli,
I would watch out when people talk about "made specifically for the MG for correct head-spacing"......ammunition is made to the same standards for head-spacing in all weapons.....be they MGs or rifles of the same caliber.
An example of this is that the 8x57mm Blanks should also chamber/fire in a Bolt-Action K98 also.

When we make Blanks for reenactors....we constantly re-check the finish product to insure that they will have "correct" head-space in all weapons to factory specs. (using gauges).....then for correct powder weight, etc. .....and last for correct function in blank-adapted weapons.

Have the person that you are buying your Blanks from show you his "Head-Space-Gauge" for 8x57mm ammunition so that you can see they are made correctly.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
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