Yeah I looked at that one! The markings indicate a wartime example, although the fixing in the top of the lid is unusual. Wartime seem to generally have a nut, whereas postwar Yugo ones have a sort of stud. Not seen a split pin type arrangement like yours before, although it's perfectly possible as so many different manufacturers made these things!
The gloss black looks at first glance unlikely, but as it looks brush painted it could be a field repaint. Is there any trace of another colour underneath? Primer? I can't see anything in the pics. What colour is the inside?
I suspect it is a wartime can, postwar painted to suit the new East or West German army. Armed forces tend to shift over to glossier finishes in peacetime as they are more durable and easier to make smart for parades etc.
If it were mine I'd probably strip it and repaint either Schwarzgrau (Dark Grey) or Ordnance Green (Feldgrau). You can't go wrong with either of those colours sprayed on over a red oxide primer. Slap some Ordnance Tan (Dunkelgelb) over that with a brush if you want a late war example!!
Wolf 88 - be good to see some pics of your 'Orange' example
TCH is correct - it's the same colour - Schwarzgrau = black grey, Dunkelgrau = dark grey. I tend to call it Schwarzgrau so I don't get confused with Dunkelgelb, or Dark Yellow...
My virgin posting here, as I entered this boat today! The first can in this thread is from the Portuguese export contract. Typical German feel and texture to paintwork, but strange dark-olive un-German color. WaA present, but manufacturer markings lacking! Leather work in place. Most of these cans are mint in appearance. Also comes with white stencilled E and P pluss serial numbers. Made in Germany for export.
The last pictures depicts a typical Yugo set. The Yugo arsenals both refurbished the original drums and holders, and made perfect replacements (without markings!). The drums and holders were chemically stripped for paint (so you will never find a trace of the original German paint). They then repainted the items in puke-green or black. I also have a drum that has simply been reblued! Marstar and IMA has sold lots of these over the years!
I was just at an air museum in Camarillo,Calif. They have a very nice mg34 on display,also the 2 drum carrier with drums. These were donated by someone that brought them home after the war. The drums are painted a semi-gloss black,with the desert color showing through in the worn spots.I will post pics in 2 wks. ---bil
Hi Bergflak - welcome to the forum and thanks for your comments! I agree with you but have a couple of observations.
The 250 round box is almost certainly from a transit case set that has been broken up, as I got it with such a case and a mint leather sling (subject of another thread) so yes made in 1943 for export... but, the colour is definitely RAL 6006 Feldgrau as it matches several other items I have in that colour. I have a barrel carrier in the Porto Olive and its a quite different colour. It's just the way it appears in the photo on your screen if it looks olive... see my comments about screen colours elsewhere on here, a minefield!
The two gurtrommels I tend to agree also, but there seems to be several colours that are attributed as Yugo. The definite one is the yellowy-green that is referred to by many as 'slime green' . There seem to be several other shades that range from an almost mint green to the colour above, sort of 'putty green' for want of a better term. The giveaway for me is the leather trim - I've never seen wartime German ones with leather on. Could the example above be postwar Czech?? There were manufacturing facilities there left by the Germans at the end of the war...?
bergflak wrote:My virgin posting here, as I entered this boat today! The first can in this thread is from the Portuguese export contract. Typical German feel and texture to paintwork, but strange dark-olive un-German color. WaA present, but manufacturer markings lacking! Leather work in place. Most of these cans are mint in appearance. Also comes with white stencilled E and P pluss serial numbers. Made in Germany for export.
The last pictures depicts a typical Yugo set. The Yugo arsenals both refurbished the original drums and holders, and made perfect replacements (without markings!). The drums and holders were chemically stripped for paint (so you will never find a trace of the original German paint). They then repainted the items in puke-green or black. I also have a drum that has simply been reblued! Marstar and IMA has sold lots of these over the years!
you mention that gurttrommel where repainted in puke-green or black...was this flat black or gloss black?
Here is a shot of an ammo can I've had for years. I would expect that the color on the inside is the original. Where the paint is chipped, there is red primer showing. Included is a 50 round can I bought from Allegheny Arsenal...is this the Yugo color? The paint has another "tan" color under it and red primer.
Does anybody know the purpose of the "SA" with a "T" below it that is stenciled on the lid?
Thanks,
MikeD
Attachments
Ammo can inside.JPG (123.99 KiB) Viewed 2424 times
Ammo can stencil.JPG (97.12 KiB) Viewed 2424 times
The internal color is "Suomi Armeei" (pardon my Finnish!) as well. The SA marked eqipment is often found without any trace of the original paint, but red-primed and OD painted. The drum is not in the typical Yugo puke-green, but rather a standard OD
I'm not collecting used Soumi equipment so I'll strip it and repaint it. I've also got a carrier and drums coming from Marstar that will probably need a new color.
Here's a paint question. I've ordered some paint from "1944 Militaria" which will get this done, but, are there "paint chips" available for the original German colors, or do I need to go up to Rapid City to the Hobby shop and get some tins of Hunbrol and make my own to get larger quantities mixed
Not sure how it applies in the USA but in the UK as most of the wartime RAL paint codes are still current I can go into my local DIY superstore or car accessory store and order it by number in whatever finishes they have. I've had RAL 6006 Ordnance Green (Feldgrau) and RAL 7021 Dark Grey (Schwarzgrau) this way. The major fly in the ointment is that Ordnance Tan (RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb) was deleted some years ago, so you have to rely on people like 1944 Militaria to supply that as a special service.
We are working on a stickie for this subject to help source out these colors.
My own research so far is as follows. I have only tried a Sherwin Williams interior/exterior paint store and the RAL numbers do come up in their system. ie. 7021.
It would have to be put into an exterior oil base...but they could not furnish me a paint chip or garantee that it would come out to be the correct color. You could mix a small pint and spray some or furnish them a sample and they could scan it and mix from that.
Ryan says to use oil and thin 3 to 1 for spraying I believe.
I also tried a SW automotive store and the color also came up...but they only had a Urathane....And I don't want to spray any Urathane's anymore in my life because of the Isocyanates (spelling ?) anyways..... the quest continues for the best solution. I am going to try a Hirshfield's or a Dupont automotive stores next.
I am also sourcing out a place for the oxirot (red oxide primer)
I truely wouldn't worry about the primer shades. I have seen many shades peering through paint scratches on original painted equipment. They range from bright red to the typical primer red. Don't get caught up in primers. As for colors. There is an excellent reference for original colors called "Wehrmacht Camoflauge Colors 1939-1945" It has paint chips on the back cover of the book. It also shows many pictures related to said colors. An important note with color matching. If you are matching the paint on equipment, take into account that the paint has faded over time. If you are going to use the color, don’t use something that would have been in contact with oils or grease on a regular basis, or if possible use the color on the inside of equipment (ie…containers). Also, RAL color codes have changed in a few of the tints. The numbers are the same, but some colors under that same number were altered. The book also covers these differences. Lastly, when someone says they have the right paint color, take it with a grain of salt. When I get home, I’ll post a pic of one of the dunkelgelb shades that I have.
It's better to be silent and considered a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
I will have to pick up that book. I have made contact with a company today oversea's that specialize in vintage paint colours. The have confirmed that the current RAL formulas have changed and also that the dunkelgelb 7028 shade differs dependant on the year. They have offered to send me colour panels of colours of my specifications of wwII RAL shades and gloss levels.
this is what the have said
"Yes - we can certainly supply all these colours - we have original standards - 7028 has a number of variants dependent upon year and equipment but problem is shipping costs of transportation to US would be prohibitive for you.
A current RAL shade card would be of no use to you as you need the wartime shades. WE could provide the colours in colour panels and send them to you so that you could have paints made locally if that would help. I'm not sure why you would want the original paint bases? Pigments and paint technology have moved on dramatically and you get a much better paint result using current technology to recreate the original colour and gloss level."
so I am going to persue this and see where it leads me...if it doesn't cost too much.
