First Time Buyer

[Triggered]

Hi all,

New member here. Have lurked for a little while now and then, but wanted to join the forum the closer I get to possibly bringing home a MG42. Have always had a fascination with the 42 from a historical and technological viewpoint; have managed to get behind the trigger a few times as well, and wow! Addicting certainly one of my favorite firearms!

Relatively new to the full auto and NFA scene with some purchases currently sitting "in jail" with ATF paperwork at the moment. But nonetheless, I have found myself in a financial state (don't worry, I ask how it happened too) to seriously consider purchasing a transferable MG42 (or M53/ MG3) and wanted to get my ducks in a row now that I've found a potential gun coming up for auction.

I consider myself fairly knowledgeable on the gun, but obviously no where near the level of expertise and trigger time as a few on the board. So excuse me if I proceed to look like a total rookie - feel free to ridicule and correct.

In the interest of self-preservation, I have refrained from attaching photos of the gun since they are watermarked and would be a give away as to what firm I am dealing with. I am not sure how much competition is out there at the moment for a transferable (I know they can be scarce), but if enough people chime in for photos being more beneficial than negative (for my bidding), I don't mind at all posting them - I just don't want to shoot myself in the foot here...

What I can say about the gun is the following:
- The gun is coming from a private museum-grade collection where it has been for the past 25-30 years; the owner has not fired the gun at all to best knowledge.
- Auction is for the gun itself, an alpine tripod, one belt and a sealed can/tin (?) of original machinegun ammo from WWII (all of this stated over the phone)
- I asked and no anti-bolt bounce has been installed on the gun - I'm assuming because it has not been a shooter versus collection piece
- Gun is registered as a C&R; I am waiting to hear back on Monday (3/6) if it is on a Form 3 or Form 4 (hopefully the first but gut feeling it's the latter, meaning 2yr wait time virtually )
- Class III specialist with the firm said it is one of the cleanest 42s he has seen in a long time (but the man is doing his job after all, trying sell it); I will say, the photos make this gun look mint.

In substitute of photos, I will list the following information/ stamping best to my abilities (everything described will be in physical descending order, meaning if the gun is pointing downrange and you're behind it, they eye would read it this way).
Left rear receiver wall: NC MG42 9684g cra
Unknown location: Di cra5 (cra with 5 underneath enclosed in a shield badge) eagle stamp (?)
Feed Cover Top: bpr pj
Top of Trunnion: Eagle stamp WoA11
Top of Barrel Shroud behind sight post: bpr

To my research I believe the receiver is a 1944 Maget with Grossfuss (bpr?) top cover and barrel shroud, can anyone add to this or elaborate please?

My intent is to shoot the gun recreationally, likely less than 1,000 rounds a year, as I also shoot precision longrange, but to also own a piece of history before prices go even crazier on transferables. However, at the same time, if regulations change with the current administration (although I wouldn't bet on it), I feel the MG42 will hold its value far better than something like an Uzi or M16 which, in my opinion, will plummet in value if something was to be repealed.

At the same time, I do not want to destroy the value of the gun either in case this is something higher on the quality grade. I plan on mostly running .308 due to ammo availability, manufacture quality and price compared to 8mm - being able to swap between the two in a few minutes is another thing I love about the MG42.

Just looking for guidance and opinions of those who have gone before me. Greatly appreciate any information passed my way as I continue reading up on the MG42 before the auction later this Spring.

[JBaum]

Random thoughts in no particular order:

I'll presume you want it to be on a Form 3 because it is out of state. Get a C & R Firearms License, and you won't have to worry about it, because you'll be able to transfer it directly to yourself across state lines with only one transfer tax and one wait whether its on a Form 3 or 4. It'll take you less time to get the C & R license than the wait for one of the transfers. Do it now, it's good for 3 years anyway. I think it's still $50.
The can of WWII ammo makes a good display, or boat anchor. Don't ever try to shoot it. A 1/50th of a second hang fire and it can blow the gun up. Not safe, not pretty. People who say they can't afford good ammo are kidding themselves. What they really can't afford is to destroy the gun, and the older the ammo, the more likely that is to happen.

Go to subguns.com and ask on the appropriate board if the selling dealer is a good guy. The Class 3 community will tell you if the seller is a trustworthy dealer or not. A bad recommendation means run and run fast. A good recommendation means every deal they've ever had or heard about was good. Reputation is everything. There are a few crooks in the world.

There's nothing like a 42, and shooting it in .308 is 99% of what shooting it in 8mm is like, and it's easier on the gun, so go for the conversion. Never shoot it without the anti-bounce device in the bolt. Get some spare parts, barrels (sooner than later - they only climb in price), a spare bolt or two, grip, recoil spring, etc. Make sure to headspace each combination of barrel/bolt to make sure they're within tolerance. Once bolt/barrel combination may work, another may not. Headspacing is discussed in detail in other threads on this board.

And it may sound self-serving, but get a manual or two and read them to understand the gun how the gun works. When I first got mine I asked 5 people how the gun worked and got 5 different answers. All 5 were wrong, which I could prove when I started translating manuals. The 42 is different enough from every other gun that understanding how it works isn't as easy as it would seem. The gun deserves an educated operator, and it will help protect your investment when you know how to run it properly. There used to be a lot of "do it this way" guys around who simply passed along incorrect information they learned years ago. With the manuals that are available, there's no excuse for that anymore.

Don't EVER use old surplus ammo. Modern surplus is fine, but just like you wouldn't go to a junk yard to siphon gasoline for your $40,000 BMW, don't put ammunition that's been stored in some nasty humid warehouse, made with inconsistent powder loads, and with an undetermined expected storage life through an expensive gun which is not replaceable. Oh, you could buy another one if you blew it up, but it will be one less nice 42 in the world, and they're hard to come by now. You can replace the gun, but the gun itself is not replaceable.

One of your first checks should be the recuperator springs, to make sure they're still strong. If they're weak, get new springs. RTG usually has recoil springs and a lot of other parts. Things don't break often, but it's best to have a few spare little parts along when you go to shoot.

If you can make it, the Knob Creek, Kentucky MG shoot is the second week of April. You'll find belts, starter tabs, bolts, and maybe a few barrels there. Heavy bolts (available) require a heavy buffer (unavailable). Don't beat the gun to death trying to use a heavy bolt with a standard buffer.

You can shop on the internet for a .308 top cover, or at least .308 feed pawls. 8mm feed pawls don't feed .308 very well. Get a second top cover (and feed tray) so that you have one for 8mm and one for .308. It's easier, and easy is good.

A Yugo stock or buffer doesn't fit properly with a German stock or buffer. Stick with a spare German stock and buffer for a German gun. Barrels are interchangeable, but check headspace.

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Appreciate your insight, John. Replying in no particular either, but...

I am hoping to have the gun come in on a Form 3 because a) as mentioned, it is out of state and b) if it was to be on a Form 4 the firearm must be transferred to my FFL (so begin one 9+ month wait) where the shop then has it on a Form 3, but to take possession of the gun I have to have it on a Form 4 again (begin the 2nd 9+ month wait). Difference is in processing time: either x1 "get in line" or x2 "get in line and now go to the back again" depending on the form. The shop is fine with holding the gun/ likely could shoot it in the meantime if they brought it out to the range.

In regards to the C&R License, I would be able to bypass the FFL transfer, but would the auction firm hold the gun for the 9 months I wait for ATF approval? I see that being a pain for the auction company/ more inventory space wasted = less potential income. If I was to go for the license, I have roughly a month of time before the auction. Think I could beat the auction with processing time?

"Shady Level" on the transaction is low, actually nonexistent. Auction firm is very, very, very well established and reputable with plenty of past history and is known in the community. I'm sure some members have likely bought from them in the past or at least considered it.

I am certainly planning on picking up a manual...or a dozen. I'm familiar with the quality and effort you have placed into getting the English translations available and to print. Incredibly grateful in the fact that you have made a great deal of limited print knowledge available for the community to use and reference. Order will be heading your way soon likely.

It has amazed me since day 1 as to why people would even consider running old surplus, let alone fire the gun without an anti-bolt bounce, just to cut corners and save a few bucks. Like you said, running gas from a wreck in the scrapyard in your sports car is a recipe for disaster. The original ammo will be a nice touch to the gun, but will get nowhere near the feed tray on my watch.

My understanding for running .308 instead of 8mm is you need: a) top cover, b) feed tray, c) barrel, and d) booster cone (all respectively in .308) and you're good to go?

Might be grabbing some parts from DA since he has them for sale and is only a few hours away (in a part of the country where driving places is measured in hours, not miles). Intention is to stock up for the coming years when I assume things will only become more and more scarce.

I haven't seen any of the guts yet on the auction gun, but should I be looking for specific numbers/ stamps/ damage on particular internal parts? I know matching numbers is rare / not a big no-no like on most firearms.

Bit of an off the topic question, but no optic is included with the tripod in this sale, but I was curious what the actual reticle looked like for an MG42 optic? Excuse the ignorance, assuming there's multiple optics for the MG42, if I haven't specified a particular model. Havent been able to find a photo online.
Kicking myself since I specifically looked through one a few weeks ago in Las Vegas but didn't bother to take a photo of it.

[JBaum]

If the gun is on a Form 4, the seller transfers it directly to you if you have the C&R license (which is an FFL, so it comes directly to you without going through a dealer, because you ARE a dealer (limited to C&R guns). With most any MG that is sold, the seller holds it until the paperwork is done. An auction house knows this. They may/may not even have possession of the gun. The seller could still have it. I don't know procedures for a gun on a Form 3. You could ask on subguns.com and get the correct information there. Having a C&R license speeds things along a bit, since you're a dealer. How fast ATF gets a C&R license done is something the guys on subguns would have a better idea of, too. Having it would save you months, and money.

Correct for the MG42 is an MZ34 or MGZ40 scope. They look almost the same, with the MGZ40 having a lower mounted optic lens on a swivel that's at the bottom of the scope. The MGZ40 is below, the MGZ is second. Both have reticles that are an inverted V, with the apex of the V being held on target. Anything less than $1600 is a good deal, and the storage can with contents can add another $600+. They're offered sometimes in the range of $2500. Not bad, just not a great price. A very cherry one with can and contents may sell for $2800, but some sellers see big dollar signs and often ask for $3500. It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it that day,

mgz40.jpg (25.59 KiB) Viewed 2426 times

MGZ.jpg

To convert to .308, you need a feed tray, the correct feed pawls or the correct feed pawls in another cover (more convenient), and a .308 barrel. I don't need to change the booster nozzle for mine, but you may need to. They don't come marked for 8mm and .308. They come with different size holes (still, not marked). My gun works fine with the same nozzle in either caliber. You might need one a mm or two smaller, but won't know till you try to shoot it. It's not an expensive item.

The cam piece needs to not have chips in it where the bolt rollers hit. If it has chips, replace it (one rivet). Everything else is easily exchangeable, so that is fairly irrelevant. Mine was all matching, including the barrel, when I bought it. I took out all those parts and use parts from a parts kit to shoot the gun.

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Bit of an update after receiving more information on the gun...

Gun is in fact a 1944 Maget with various bpr Grossfuss parts, not a matching parts gun to be expected, but all internals are with 400 units of each other 92xx to 96xx and in excellent condition. Bolt locks into place under its own weight and firing/ cocking mechanisms operate smoothly; unnumbered German barrel.

Is available on either a Form 4 or Form 3, which is good since I did not currently have my C&R and will save roughly 9+ months of waiting for a second Form 4.

In regards to getting a C&R License...I am considering it given the several months of wait time it can bypass, however, I have roughly 35 days for it to be processed if I overnight the application in today or tomorrow. It has been done...but not unheard of for it to take months sometimes.
Just not sure what the implications would be since my address may be moving at the end of the year to a completely different state, unless I am still waiting for guns to be approved by BATF. Would hate to run into some hidden implications there...

I think the easiest thing to do when running .308 would be to just have separate top covers, feed trays, and barrel for the sake of convenience and simplicity.

John, thank you for giving me the annotated lesson on optics. That is the one thing not currently included in the sale that I would like. I am familiar with the inverted V reticle, granted I hadn't even considered that an option in my head
Are the optics fixed power, or adjustable to variable settings? They allow for indirect engagement out past 2000 meters correct? Was also reading about the Lafette tripod and it having a vertical swing motion gunners used to cover roughly 400 meters or so to build a larger field of fire - can't remember the exact name at the moment.

Very excited to hopefully be bringing this gun home, especially after looking at other transferable prices; might as well stick with the 42 when you get to the big stuff

[JBaum]

I have a manual that explains indirect fire and indirect aiming. The Germans really had it all figured out.

The German scopes are 3 power, fixed.

The lafettes had searching fire devices built in, which used the guns recoil to operate an automatic elevation mechanism. Just set the stops for highest and lowest elevation, and the stops for left and right traverse, and you would manual sweep the gun left and right while the elevation would self-adjust up and down to fill a field of the enemy with bullets. They had the math all figured out for all of that, and they had a triangulation slide-rule for doing it through indirect fire. The odd little accessories like aiming stakes and a deckungsinkelmesser are expensive enough, but the triangulation slide rule is a $400+ accessory. So many toys, so little money.

Hopefully you'll have your C&R license by the time you need it. It would still be faster to have the seller delay the paperwork a few weeks until you got it so that the license number could be put on the Form 4 so the transfer would go directly to you in one jump. The license also enables you to travel with the gun across state lines (to a state where it's legal to have), without having further paperwork. That saves a lot of crap if you want to go to a shoot across a state line. I'm in Ohio and go to a shoot in PA. once in a while with mine. Just put it in the trunk and go.

[Triggered]

I have the C&R paperwork ready to go at the moment, but just waiting to find out if there's any last minute implications I would need to watch out for if I was to get it.

Thank you for mentioning the state line part; was unaware of the potential problem (recall talking to my dealer about it with suppressors / not sure if an MG would be different as it really varies state-to-state). But where I'm located, right on the border of ND and MN, the full-auto friendly range is across the river in MN whereas the one on the ND side would have an aneurysm and brain hemorrhage if someone showed up with a FA.

Referencing back to the tripod.......
Absolutely amazing technology for damn near 80 years ago and to have it so simplistic and efficient - very German to say the least. Certainly don't see that happening nowadays or with other military grade arms even in this century.

I assume shooting the gun off the tripod with optic is a bit more fun or enabling. The 42 isn't exactly a stellar offhand gun to say the least
Have seen mention of an assault stance or something of that nature where fired from the hip and I assume you walk it up onto target - for the two seconds you still have ammo

[JBaum]

In assault mode, you're supposed to fire 3 - 5 round bursts only, so a 50 round belt would last for 10 targets/shots. It was more of a point and shoot method, rather than shouldering the gun and actually aiming.

Firing from the hip isn't difficult, just make sure you get one foot back far enough. It's sort of like a fire hose. It's a steady push, not a bump, bump, bump. It'll rock you back a little, but just stay on it and bring the fire onto the target.

Prone from the bipod is fine too. From the tripod isn't as much fun because it isn't "hands on the gun" (for me, anyway).

[magnet69]

FYI, sounds like a great gun. I got my FA MG42 a couple years ago and never regret it. BTW, I've also purchased several non-MG42 MG's that were safe queens and one a museum gun that all had problems that cost $$$ to get professionally restored so I could shoot them. At least with the ones you know are shooters, they usually work right from the get go. Good luck and have great fun!