How many C&R MG-42's in USA?

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DARIVS ARCHITECTVS
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How many C&R MG-42's in USA?

Post by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS »

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone has any idea how many Curio and Relic MG-42's are registered in the United States. I own one, and with the price of such a gun now around $40,000, I was wondering just how rare it really is in raw numbers. It seems darn expensive to me. Anyone even have an estimate.

Thanks, fellas...


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Edited 12/16/05: Fixed the ampersand glitch. I put a link for this cool site on my websiet on the links page. My tribute to the Admin gods here who run such a cool site!
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Post by Daskraut »

Gee, it would be swell to see a link for THIS SITE on that website you so shamelessly plugged..... :D
mg42

Post by mg42 »

what is C&R?

an mg 42 for $40.000, WTF??
36gOPFOR

Post by 36gOPFOR »

There is no way that an estimate of registered C&R MG42s can be made. Even BATFE does not have complete and accurate records as evidenced by their attempt started a few years ago to check on the inventory of the C2 and C3 holders and how poorly their records matched the documentation kept by the dealers.
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Post by JBaum »

C and R means Curio and Relic. If a gun is 50 years old or older, ATF classifies it as a C and R which allows it to be sold across state lines to people who have a C and R Firearms License . It generally means that it is an original, wartime gun, not something made up in the 1970s when it was still legal to manufacture a machine gun.

An MG42 worth $40,000???? not worth it, but they're selling for that and more.

I'm 53, and I grew up watching war movies and played army when I was young. I had a plastic Thompson that fired caps. We always wanted the real thing instead of toys when we were little. Now that the house is paid for, the kids are out of college, and working is finally at the better pay rate, we have some spare money for toys. If the supply is low and demand is high, the price goes up. In the last 15 years, I've seen prices for an MG42 go from $8,000 to $40,000. In the early 1980s an MG42 was $700. My first 98K was $175, and that was an all matching byf 41 with the sling, cleaning kit and bayonet. My first Garand was $280, it was a Winchester and a real cherry. I bought an all matching 99% Luger with two matching mags in the correct holster for $400. I still have it, although I've turned down $2,500 for it.

I remember thinking that $1,800 for an MP5 was nuts. And I wish I would have bought that M60 for $3,200. Yea, try to find an M2HB for $3,000. They're $25,000 now. Most of what I already have, I can't afford to buy.
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Post by Cruiser133 »

I guess us youngins will have to wait until you babyboomers start to die off to get our WW2 guns:)
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Post by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS »

A bit more info on C and R MG's... You do not need a C and R license to own a C and R gun unless the State you live in requires it. Here in Minnesota, you can own any C and R gun without any license. Curio and Relic machineguns are those that were registered prior (or during) 1968, and thus they are grandfathered in. You can own one if you are 1) 18 years old and 2) not convicted of a felony. The thing is, these guns are very rare. They always have their original receivers intact and were never made from rewelded receivers. Most of them are 100% original, though by now many have had parts replaced dues to wear and tear. They are darn expensive all because of their rarity. The MG-42 registered as C and R does indeed go for over $40,000 in the market now, without accessories.

The upside is that the government has no title to such a gun, in that you do not have to pay the expensive license fees every few years to let you keep it. Such a gun is yours, and yours alone without the taxes raked in by the government from license holders. You are required to have registration papers proving your ownership when you go to the range. Police officers will typically check for such paperwork when you opt to shoot such a gun on private land and the neighbors call the police to check out the automatic gunfire noise. The police officers I have dealt with have always been polite, and if they arrive, we usually ask them if they want to try out the gun and join in the fun. It's always good for the local cops to understand that machinegun collectors and history buffs are not out there trying to start WWIII. They enjoy seeing a rare WWII machinegun once in a while too.
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Post by mg42 »

thank's for the reply's!!

i'l bougt my real mg 42 for 1000 euro's, $850 end the lafette €1500, $1250!
but its a non firing model.......

so here in the states it's more expencif than in europ.

but ammo (blank) is realy rare to find!
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Post by drooling idiot »

non firing models are available here for around the same as you paid. there are fully functional legal mg42s available for $ 40,000 U.S. and semi-auto SA42's available for around $4,500 U.S. dollars.
its not the steel that makes the guns different prices its the laws and the "privilege" of being able to own and play with them without going to jail.
"good , bad, .....I'm the man with the gun."

Its amazing anything works right around here with a bunch of
over-age juvenile delinquents running the place.
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Post by JBaum »

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS:

"Curio and Relic machineguns are those that were registered prior (or during) 1968, and thus they are grandfathered in."

Is that the way Minnesota defines a C and R machine gun? Because that's not the way the federal government defines it. For federal purposes, a C and R gun or machine gun has nothing to do with whether it was registered before 1968. They define it as a gun which derives most of its value from being a collectible, or if it's 50 years old or older. Thus, WW2 guns are by definition C and R, regardless of when they were registered. An MG42 maufactured in 1965 is not yet a C and R weapon, even if it was registered in 1965.. The gun control act of 1968 did not address machine guns that I'm aware of. The 1986 laws determined that no new manufacture of machine guns was allowed, but what was already out there was not addressed. That was the beginning of the price increase. Limit supply when the demand increases, and the price goes up.

Someplace might require you to have a C and R license to own a C and R gun, but I'm not aware of any, although there certainly are places which require a license for any gun. The only advantage to having a C and R license is buying weapons in another state which are on ATFs list of C and R guns. As a holder of a C and R license, the buyer and seller are not required to run the purchase through a dealer to make it legal. I've received gus from out of state sellers through the U.S. mail. Perfectly legal. The C and R list is available on ATFs website. A C and R license is of no value in buying modern guns, full automatic or not.

There is no federal requirement to have paperwork with you at a range, or any other place for that matter. Minnesota must be different on that one too.... It just saves time and aggravation to have a copy with you when dealing with cops who don't know what they're doing. Most cops don't know what they're looking at when it comes to the guns or the paperwork. When I was a deputy, I received no education whatsoever regarding machine guns, and had several non-cops tell me that they were all illegal.

Neighbors will panic when they hear full auto and call the cops. So if you have uneducated cops, having your papers is a good idea. And if you forget them, don't surrender your lawfully owned weapons, just tell the cop you'll stick around till he calls someone who knows what's going on. No sense getting in a pissing match over it when you know you're right.

I've had a C and R license for 8 years, and an MG42 for almost that long.

This has been my experience.
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Post by 36gOPFOR »

Minnesota follows the Fed laws on C&R definition. The Fed law states that any that were manufactured prior to 1946 or are listed in the C&R listing kept by BATF. This includes certain MGs that were manufactured after 1945 but due to their rarity are considered as collector items.

It never hurts having your paperwork with you when at the range or traveling. MOST local law enforcement officers are not familiar with the details of the NFA laws and may be quick to think that autos are not legal, etc.

BATF NFA branch will not reliably be available at all time to answer questions from local law enforcement assuming that they could find the right number in the first place. Even the local office of the BATF may or may not have any real expertise with the details of the NFA regs (speaking from personal experience).

02 SOT
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