WLA M53 Problems... HELP!

[jakharath]

Hello,

I purchased a M53 and out of the box it had to be sent back to WLA (they replaced the bolt head). Got it back last week and took it out shooting this weekend and had several issues. It took over two hours to fire 120 rounds. I oiled the belts after they were loaded and right before firing. The gun itself was soaked in break free. The belts are the ones that came with the weapon and ones purchased from rtg.

Any info would be helpful.


Problems:

1 - Misfires due to soft fire pin strikes on both 50's Yugo and 70's Romi. Most of these rounds could be put back in the weapon (manually breach loaded) and would fire fine.


2 - Jams

70's Romi ammo jammed in the breach

50's Yugo ammo jammed in the breach

Jam between the feed tray and the bolt head

3 - Belt not advancing - needed someone tugging on the 'empty' side of the belt to get it to load the first round. The only time the weapon feed 'reliably' was one person on the left holding the ammo and a person on the right pulling the belt.

4 - Firing out of battery? The gun would fire multiple times per trigger pull. Out of 120 rounds, it fired 2 rounds with one trigger pull at least 6 times and it fired 3 rounds with one trigger pull at least once. Don't get me wrong, it was WAY COOL shooting that fast but I don't know if it's firing out of battery.


Putzing with the gun ended up being a real workout doing it on the ground in a field. Is there an economical option for a tripod? Not looking for anything fancy, just something portable to make it easier to shoot/troubleshoot.


Thanks in advance for any hint/comments/or suggestions.

Jason Chapman

[Michael J]

Could it be that the part i outlined in the attached photo is weak from use? Not your use that is, but use from it's "original" owner .

Something is wrong with your topcover, the pressure plate i outlined i think may explain misfeeding, but some of the other parts within the top cover are to blame for the belt not advancing.

Uh oh! Firing multiple shots / trigger pull technically puts you in possession of an illegal machinegun. Sounds stupid, but if someone wanted to, they could have you charged ... It is possible this is being caused by your recoil spring being too long. Your gun will cock back far enough reload itself, but not far enough to reset the triggers "action". If this is only happening now and then though, it could be your ammo not being "hot enough". Did you buy some badly stored ammo perhaps? I would take a second look at your recoil spring definitely.

I am also assuming your gun utilized the AR-15 fire control group? Try getting the wolf's extra power spring, or whatever the thing is. Either that, or make sure your firing pin isn't dulled / worn down.


Good luck man

-Michael J

[drooling idiot]

Michael J's ID-ed the most likely trouble spot for a jam like in your picture.
I'm not 100% sure it is the problem or all your problem because you say the belts not advancing either. This makes me think your top cover maybe sitting too high where it latches at the rear ?

Follow this break in procedure.
If you have the time, try hand feeding single rounds directly into the barrel (20-50 Times), let the bolt fly forward and lock closed, fire them without the guts of the top cover installed to wear/mate/lap the bolt, rails, barrel, and firing mechanisms together and check basic functions like ejection,firing pin strike, and barrel reset while identifying individual issues one at a time. After the gun performs as it should at this stage,
Then move to single rounds laying in the feed tray 20-50 times to check feed issues before moving to short belts of 10rds to keep the weight of the belt down and stress on the belt feed mech. down.

You have to crawl ,then walk ,then run, before you can fly.

[jakharath]

Thanks for the replies. Wanted to make sure it wasn't user error. Sending it back to WLA (again) for repairs today... So far WLA has been very helpful. Hopefully it will work flawlessly when they are finished.

[mattcdavis]

When they get done with it? were they not done with it before they shipped it? If someone had done a thourogh shake down surely these problems would have turned up before they reshipped the weapon a second time? Your auto/doubling or tripling could be caused by the aforementioned fire control senario or a wedged/ stuck firing pin that hangs up in the forward position, or just simply a slamfire issue. All of which are not good! I will be curious to hear what they have to say for themselves?

[jakharath]

I took the 'new' gun to the range and fired it a few times. Had similar problems on the 20 or so rounds I fired before the bolt head "bushing backed out and would not allow cam rollers to fully retract". The bolt head stopped about an inch from where it should stop. Sent it to WLA, they replaced the bolt head and sent it back. The action was so much better than before. I thought everything was all right. (I'm glad there wasn't a zombie infestation before I could test fire her.)

Took the M53 and 650 rounds of 8mm goodness camping last weekend looking forward to shooting it all. Then we had the above mentioned problems. It took three of us to get about 40 rounds strait thru it. One person on the left feeding belt. One person on the right pulling the empty belt. All while I fired. The poor pumpkin never stood a chance.

Talking to WLA this morning led me to believe that 'Vera' (A gun that big needs a name! Anyone get that reference?) has two issues causing all the symptoms.

1) The firing pin was sticking both in and out at times. In - accounting for the misfires and out - accounting for the auto-fires.

2) Feed tray issues may account for the jams and feed issues.


I asked WLA to give the weapon a thorough going over because I don't want to have to send it in again. The wife isn't happy about all the problems. If it's not fixed upon return, she'll want me to return the $2600.00 "single shot breach loader"/"paper weight". Did I mention she's not happy?

I'll post more when I know more.

[wiselitearms]

Hello,

I purchased a M53 and out of the box it had to be sent back to WLA (they replaced the bolt head). Got it back last week and took it out shooting this weekend and had several issues. It took over two hours to fire 120 rounds. I oiled the belts after they were loaded and right before firing. The gun itself was soaked in break free. The belts are the ones that came with the weapon and ones purchased from rtg.
Any info would be helpful.

Putzing with the gun ended up being a real workout doing it on the ground in a field. Is there an economical option for a tripod? Not looking for anything fancy, just something portable to make it easier to shoot/troubleshoot.

Thanks in advance for any hint/comments/or suggestions.

Jason Chapman

The German MG3 tripod can be obtained thru several importers/retailers, as well as the twin MG3 AA mounts. Sometimes they need a bit of fitting, but generally work well with the Yugo M53.
You may want to obtain some actual 8MM belts. The ones at RTG are 7.62X51 belts. We test fire one belt of 50 rounds thru each M53, and that belt is identifed (tape with serial number) and packed with the firearm. The firearm is shipped by us to the distribution warehouse where the other supplied belts are placed in the crate by the distributor.
I should mention that care needs to be exercised when loading the M53. Unlike the F/A original the first round of the belt must NOT be placed in the opening of the feed tray. Since the bolt is forward placing a round in that position means that when you close/latch the top cover the "pressure plate" (surrounded by the red box, shown above) bends up/to the side. Sometimes all it takes is one time, and after that it won't feed properly. It isn't hard to rectify by bending the plate back, you just have to realize what happened.
On the semi, the first round is placed next to the slot in the feed tray, pulling the bolt back fully and releasing the charging handle/letting the bolt slam forward, advances the belt, allows the bolt to strip off the round and loads the M53.
When closing the topcover (making sure the guide roller is aligned in the belt feed lever) it also helps to strike it with the heel of your hand to ensure it is fully latched.
You can contact me directly at the "INFO" account or call into the office if you have any questions concerning the operation of your M53.

Richard C. Hamer

Wise Lite Arms
Class II Manufacturer
07 FFL SOT
FAX: (940) 433-8096
WEBSITE: http://www.wlarms.com/
SALES: sales@wlarms.com
INFORMATION: info@wlarms.com

[jakharath]

The German MG3 tripod can be obtained thru several importers/retailers, as well as the twin MG3 AA mounts. Sometimes they need a bit of fitting, but generally work well with the Yugo M53.
You may want to obtain some actual 8MM belts. The ones at RTG are 7.62X51 belts. We test fire one belt of 50 rounds thru each M53, and that belt is identifed (tape with serial number) and packed with the firearm. The firearm is shipped by us to the distribution warehouse where the other supplied belts are placed in the crate by the distributor.
I should mention that care needs to be exercised when loading the M53. Unlike the F/A original the first round of the belt must NOT be placed in the opening of the feed tray. Since the bolt is forward placing a round in that position means that when you close/latch the top cover the "pressure plate" (surrounded by the red box, shown above) bends up/to the side. Sometimes all it takes is one time, and after that it won't feed properly. It isn't hard to rectify by bending the plate back, you just have to realize what happened.
On the semi, the first round is placed next to the slot in the feed tray, pulling the bolt back fully and releasing the charging handle/letting the bolt slam forward, advances the belt, allows the bolt to strip off the round and loads the M53.
When closing the topcover (making sure the guide roller is aligned in the belt feed lever) it also helps to strike it with the heel of your hand to ensure it is fully latched.
You can contact me directly at the "INFO" account or call into the office if you have any questions concerning the operation of your M53.

Richard C. Hamer

Mr. Hamer,

Thanks for the info on the tripods. Putzing with the M53 on the ground in a field gets rough. But I want to make sure the weapon works before buying anything else for it.

I received three 50 round belts with the M53. None of them had tape (or a serial number) on them. I have always had the last 'empty' link over the chamber. The 'first' round on the belt 'clicks' in place when pulling the belt thru. I stop and then charge the weapon. Sometimes it would load and function fine. Sometimes it loads and would not fire (really weak primers strike, could manually load the round a second time and it would fire fine). Other times the belt would not advance and the weapon would not load a round. Mostly it would jam (see pics above). Almost every time the tray was opened the curved rail would have to be put back on at the top because it was out of alignment.

Would a bent pressure plate keep the belt from advancing?

Y'all will have the weapon today (Tuesday 1/27/09). I look forward to receiving a fully functional weapon.

Thanks,
Jason Chapman

[mattcdavis]

Well I guess one fifty round belt should be a sufficient test procedure. I realize that much more than that starts to eat into the already small profit that these types of weapons make. What I have done to "fix" the problem with the incorrect belt starting position was to weld a small square for my charging handle catch to, for lack of a better word, snag on when it is retracted. I also disassembled my charging handle and welded up the cam to get more "action" out of the catch so now all I have to do is pull it smartly to the rear, insert a full belt with starter tab and pull all the way right, then smack the charging handle forward to release into battery! This is actually a variation of one of the guys bolt hold opens here on MG42.us. I think it's Bolex gave me the Idea! Or I have just copied his? It works great and only took about 30 extra minutes. Oh I also used the Casewell Black Oxide on mine and thanks Bolex! She is soooooo purdy now!

[Blanksguy]

Just a couple of quick observations and questions:

1: Is there the posibility that you "system" is only allowing "boarderline" reward travel of the bolt to a point where it "sometimes" catches the next case-base and sometimes the side of the case (?)......look around the buffer to rear-of-bolt contact area vs the recoil-spring "bind".....then look around the "hammer-area" to see if the bolt comes back far enough to cock the hammer "and" trip the disconnector so that you don't have a full-auto gun. The hammer folllowing the bolt forward could account for some light primer-hits, but surely accounts for the 2-3 round bursts.

2: Breakfree is great on some guns.......but, have you tried weapons grease. (What does the manufacturer's Owner's Manual tell you (?).

3: If no manual.....and constant calls are made to these people....even to a point of having to ship your gun in for their repairs........"Was reimbursement requested and received for shipping expenses (?)".....if not, why (?). The manufacturer has the responsibility to function-check and "proof-fire" every firearm that leaves the factory.......or is this something that the "manufacturer" expects the Forum-Members of MG42-Com to repair for him/them, by guiding the new-owner of their SA42 through the troubleshooting/repairs and "tunning" of their weapon that they just made the profit on $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (?).
You really need to follow through on this point "and" then let us know what the manufacturer did.......if he isn't doing anything (zero)....maybe that's the number of SA42s we should recommend buying from him (?).

Guys, the manufacturers of these SA42s are not going to fix the problems with these SA42s that they make unless they are required to do so......"and" they won't care unless it starts eatting at their "bottom-line"/profit-margin if they are required to pay the shipping both ways to "fix" something that should have been checked and corrected at their shop. You, the new "first-owner" of their gun needs to insist on reimbursement of shipping expenses. PERIOD !!!

Last, on buying a used SA42 or SA34 from anyone........get something in writing that the gun does or doesnot fire/run correctly.....what ammo was used....and what pre-firing lubrication was required. This may give you a little "recourse" if the gun was "screwed" to begin with and the old-owner just wants to be done with it.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[jakharath]

Just a couple of quick observations and questions:

1: Is there the posibility that you "system" is only allowing "boarderline" reward travel of the bolt to a point where it "sometimes" catches the next case-base and sometimes the side of the case (?)......look around the buffer to rear-of-bolt contact area vs the recoil-spring "bind".....then look around the "hammer-area" to see if the bolt comes back far enough to cock the hammer "and" trip the disconnector so that you don't have a full-auto gun. The hammer folllowing the bolt forward could account for some light primer-hits, but surely accounts for the 2-3 round bursts.

2: Breakfree is great on some guns.......but, have you tried weapons grease. (What does the manufacturer's Owner's Manual tell you (?).

3: If no manual.....and constant calls are made to these people....even to a point of having to ship your gun in for their repairs........"Was reimbursement requested and received for shipping expenses (?)".....if not, why (?). The manufacturer has the responsibility to function-check and "proof-fire" every firearm that leaves the factory.......or is this something that the "manufacturer" expects the Forum-Members of MG42-Com to repair for him/them, by guiding the new-owner of their SA42 through the troubleshooting/repairs and "tunning" of their weapon that they just made the profit on $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (?).
You really need to follow through on this point "and" then let us know what the manufacturer did.......if he isn't doing anything (zero)....maybe that's the number of SA42s we should recommend buying from him (?).

Guys, the manufacturers of these SA42s are not going to fix the problems with these SA42s that they make unless they are required to do so......"and" they won't care unless it starts eatting at their "bottom-line"/profit-margin if they are required to pay the shipping both ways to "fix" something that should have been checked and corrected at their shop. You, the new "first-owner" of their gun needs to insist on reimbursement of shipping expenses. PERIOD !!!

Last, on buying a used SA42 or SA34 from anyone........get something in writing that the gun does or doesnot fire/run correctly.....what ammo was used....and what pre-firing lubrication was required. This may give you a little "recourse" if the gun was "screwed" to begin with and the old-owner just wants to be done with it.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

The gun is at Wise Lite Arms so I can't check anything. WLA suggested break free. WLA has paid for shipping both times and have been really nice to work with. I have faith that my M53 will work flawlessly when WLA returns it. If not, I'll return it to Hero Gear (where I purchased it). If that happens, I'll have belt and lots of 8mm to sell. Hopefully it will not come to that...

[oakrodent]

WLA is giving the m-53 a bad name. Doesn't matter how nice they are. If they are not fixing the problem they are just blowing smoke up your *** How can they return it to you after they fix it and it still does not work correctly. Quality control must be slipping allot!!!When you are sick and tied messing the withthat WLA m-53 send me a PM. I have some nice BRP Mg42's that work the first time and every other time the trigger is pulled.

The old saying is " You get what you pay for"

[jakharath]

WLA is giving the m-53 a bad name. Doesn't matter how nice they are. If they are not fixing the problem they are just blowing smoke up your *** How can they return it to you after they fix it and it still does not work correctly. Quality control must be slipping allot!!!When you are sick and tied messing the withthat WLA m-53 send me a PM. I have some nice BRP Mg42's that work the first time and every other time the trigger is pulled.

The old saying is " You get what you pay for"

I'm new to the whole belt fed world. What's the difference between the WLA and the BRP guns?

Thanks!

[Michael J]

http://www.brpguns.com/mg42semi.htm

Well, BRP are a little more expensive i think, but now that you mention them... Never once have i come across a thread about a broken-down brp m53 / mg42.

I'm not sure what determines this difference, maybe brp aren't as mass produced?

[bmwr12]

A guy in my reenacting group had a BRP gun and it broke something everytime he used it.. He said it worked good with live ammo but when you tried to use blanks it just wouldn't work. You couldn't get more then 3 rounds to fire in sucession. But then again you could make say 250 things and have 1or 2 bad ones.

[Bil]

WLA 53s are made by them under contract to Century.They use the front from the yugo 53s and a rear receiver and front bearing bushing of their own manufacture,with semi mods designed by them.BRP is made with their own stampings for the receiver,internal and mods I am not familiar with.Maybe someone that is familiar with both can do a comparison. ---bil

[wiselitearms]

The German MG3 tripod can be obtained thru several importers/retailers, as well as the twin MG3 AA mounts. Sometimes they need a bit of fitting, but generally work well with the Yugo M53.
You may want to obtain some actual 8MM belts. The ones at RTG are 7.62X51 belts. We test fire one belt of 50 rounds thru each M53, and that belt is identifed (tape with serial number) and packed with the firearm. The firearm is shipped by us to the distribution warehouse where the other supplied belts are placed in the crate by the distributor.
I should mention that care needs to be exercised when loading the M53. Unlike the F/A original the first round of the belt must NOT be placed in the opening of the feed tray. Since the bolt is forward placing a round in that position means that when you close/latch the top cover the "pressure plate" (surrounded by the red box, shown above) bends up/to the side. Sometimes all it takes is one time, and after that it won't feed properly. It isn't hard to rectify by bending the plate back, you just have to realize what happened.
On the semi, the first round is placed next to the slot in the feed tray, pulling the bolt back fully and releasing the charging handle/letting the bolt slam forward, advances the belt, allows the bolt to strip off the round and loads the M53.
When closing the topcover (making sure the guide roller is aligned in the belt feed lever) it also helps to strike it with the heel of your hand to ensure it is fully latched.
You can contact me directly at the "INFO" account or call into the office if you have any questions concerning the operation of your M53.

Richard C. Hamer

Mr. Hamer,

Thanks for the info on the tripods. Putzing with the M53 on the ground in a field gets rough. But I want to make sure the weapon works before buying anything else for it.

I received three 50 round belts with the M53. None of them had tape (or a serial number) on them. I have always had the last 'empty' link over the chamber. The 'first' round on the belt 'clicks' in place when pulling the belt thru. I stop and then charge the weapon. Sometimes it would load and function fine. Sometimes it loads and would not fire (really weak primers strike, could manually load the round a second time and it would fire fine). Other times the belt would not advance and the weapon would not load a round. Mostly it would jam (see pics above). Almost every time the tray was opened the curved rail would have to be put back on at the top because it was out of alignment.

Would a bent pressure plate keep the belt from advancing?

Y'all will have the weapon today (Tuesday 1/27/09). I look forward to receiving a fully functional weapon.

Thanks,
Jason Chapman

Jason,
The owner performed a "Tech Inspection" of your M53 today. Repairs have been commenced. The only issue now remaining is with the fire control group. By the end of the work week this M53 should be done, test fired and ready for return. That is pretty typical turn around on our warranty service as Tony/WLA try and get peoples guns back quickly. If you like you are more than welcome to call the office at the end of the work week (Thursday) and we can give you a detailed run down of what work was performed.
I hope you didn't mis-understand my reason for providing such a detailed response to your original post. The same info is in the manual that should have been supplied (by Century) with the M53 (although Century publishes the early REV. 2 and not the final REV.7 that we sent them). I didn't expect you to troubleshoot your M53 as I knew it was already being sent back. I did expect other M53 owners to read this thread and thought some might find the text to be useful. I am a poor/slow typist and never make postings for the sake of seeing my own words on a screen!
If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact me at the "info" account.

Richard C. Hamer

Wise Lite Arms
Class II Manufacturer
07 FFL SOT
FAX: (940) 433-8096
WEBSITE: http://www.wlarms.com/
SALES: sales@wlarms.com
INFORMATION: info@wlarms.com

[Bil]

I will say it again-wiselite is a good outfit to deal with,and are always happy to deal with any problems you may have .Thanks for the info,Richard! ---bil

[rocco1911]

Once again Rich & wiselight stand behind & rectify any issues regards there products cant ask for anything more than that You guy's are a stand up outfit.

And Rich I really want one of those Sterling's you guy's gotta start cranking them out

[jakharath]

The German MG3 tripod can be obtained thru several importers/retailers, as well as the twin MG3 AA mounts. Sometimes they need a bit of fitting, but generally work well with the Yugo M53.
You may want to obtain some actual 8MM belts. The ones at RTG are 7.62X51 belts. We test fire one belt of 50 rounds thru each M53, and that belt is identifed (tape with serial number) and packed with the firearm. The firearm is shipped by us to the distribution warehouse where the other supplied belts are placed in the crate by the distributor.
I should mention that care needs to be exercised when loading the M53. Unlike the F/A original the first round of the belt must NOT be placed in the opening of the feed tray. Since the bolt is forward placing a round in that position means that when you close/latch the top cover the "pressure plate" (surrounded by the red box, shown above) bends up/to the side. Sometimes all it takes is one time, and after that it won't feed properly. It isn't hard to rectify by bending the plate back, you just have to realize what happened.
On the semi, the first round is placed next to the slot in the feed tray, pulling the bolt back fully and releasing the charging handle/letting the bolt slam forward, advances the belt, allows the bolt to strip off the round and loads the M53.
When closing the topcover (making sure the guide roller is aligned in the belt feed lever) it also helps to strike it with the heel of your hand to ensure it is fully latched.
You can contact me directly at the "INFO" account or call into the office if you have any questions concerning the operation of your M53.

Richard C. Hamer

Mr. Hamer,

Thanks for the info on the tripods. Putzing with the M53 on the ground in a field gets rough. But I want to make sure the weapon works before buying anything else for it.

I received three 50 round belts with the M53. None of them had tape (or a serial number) on them. I have always had the last 'empty' link over the chamber. The 'first' round on the belt 'clicks' in place when pulling the belt thru. I stop and then charge the weapon. Sometimes it would load and function fine. Sometimes it loads and would not fire (really weak primers strike, could manually load the round a second time and it would fire fine). Other times the belt would not advance and the weapon would not load a round. Mostly it would jam (see pics above). Almost every time the tray was opened the curved rail would have to be put back on at the top because it was out of alignment.

Would a bent pressure plate keep the belt from advancing?

Y'all will have the weapon today (Tuesday 1/27/09). I look forward to receiving a fully functional weapon.

Thanks,
Jason Chapman

Jason,
The owner performed a "Tech Inspection" of your M53 today. Repairs have been commenced. The only issue now remaining is with the fire control group. By the end of the work week this M53 should be done, test fired and ready for return. That is pretty typical turn around on our warranty service as Tony/WLA try and get peoples guns back quickly. If you like you are more than welcome to call the office at the end of the work week (Thursday) and we can give you a detailed run down of what work was performed.
I hope you didn't mis-understand my reason for providing such a detailed response to your original post. The same info is in the manual that should have been supplied (by Century) with the M53 (although Century publishes the early REV. 2 and not the final REV.7 that we sent them). I didn't expect you to troubleshoot your M53 as I knew it was already being sent back. I did expect other M53 owners to read this thread and thought some might find the text to be useful. I am a poor/slow typist and never make postings for the sake of seeing my own words on a screen!
If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact me at the "info" account.

Richard C. Hamer

Wise Lite Arms
Class II Manufacturer
07 FFL SOT
FAX: (940) 433-8096
WEBSITE: http://www.wlarms.com/
SALES: sales@wlarms.com
INFORMATION: info@wlarms.com

Richard,

Thanks for the update. See if they can put a selector switch on the fire control group while they are at it!

My M53 didn't ship with a manual. I called Hero Gear first, they said to call the manufacturer. Then I called WLA, who said I needed to call Century. Then called Century who emailed the Rev.2 manual. How can I go about getting the Rev. 7 manual? I have a translated copy of the German MG42 manual, the WAL Rev.2 manual and a BRP manual.

My origional post was to see if I was doing something wrong. Didn't want to blame the weapon or WLA for my own stupidity. I don't mind troubleshooting.

It took a llittle over a week from the time I shipped it to WLA to when I received it the first time around. So your turn around time is pretty good.

Thanks again,
Jason Chapman