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wtk: Problems in 42 with Yugo 50's ammo from century

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bluker1

wtk: Problems in 42 with Yugo 50's ammo from century

Postby bluker1 » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:37 pm

I just tried a bunch of the 1950's yugo 8mm that century is selling in my FA 42's and ended up blowing two guns. I was having the cases blow. Has anyone else had the same problems?

alan

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Postby TOM R » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:29 pm

think with any surplus you need to hand sort and look for loose lead and cracked bottle necks, is your head space set correct?
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Postby bluker1 » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:01 pm

TOM R wrote:think with any surplus you need to hand sort and look for loose lead and cracked bottle necks, is your head space set correct?


Maybe I wasn't clear. The ammo is bright and shiny with no cracked necks and runs fine in a FA 1919. It just blew my 42 up and 2 others at the shoot here in Colorado. There is no headspacing to be set on a 42. This same gun ran fine with the 1940's Yugo and Romo 8mm, but this batch of 1950's yugo 8mm seems to blowing guns.

alan

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Postby TOM R » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:24 pm

:? sorry don't have a clue then
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Postby JBaum » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm

While there is no way to set headspacing on the 42, it is VERY important. Not all bolt/barrel combinations will headspace correctly together. You need to check headspace to make sure the combination(s) you have work OK. I have 5 barrels and 3 bolts. All but one combination headspace OK, and one combination is too tight. Blowing the barrel change door open is not a fun thing, and bulging the receiver or picking brass out of your arm is really embarrassing.

The 1919 does not fire at 25 shots per second, so 50 year old ammo having a 1/10th of a second handfire will blow the crap out of an MG42. People blow up $12,000 1919s too running cheap ammo. It just doesn't happen as often due to the rate of fire, and the fact that the 1919 is built from considerably heavier steel. For semi guns, a slight hangfire is not a problem.

Let's be realistic here, running 50 year old ammo in a $40,000 gun because it's cheap is like putting diesel fuel in your Ferrari. It'll run for a while, then bad things happen. If you want to shoot it cheap, convert it to .308 and it's only $180 per thousand rounds or so. BLowing up a 42 is a lot more expensive than the small change you're saving on 50 year old ammo.

Was your 42 running erratic before it blew? Did it run a little faster then a little slower? That's a split second hang fire. The old corrosive ammo can also eat the casing from the inside, leaving it weak. The steel cased ammo is notorious for this. That's undetectable from the outside.

I have some old ammo that I shoot in my 98k rifles. The worst I've had is a 7 second hang fire. Really scary (Try a different word.). I found that by shaking the cartridge before using it in the rifle, I can hear the powder rattle in some cartridges, and not in some others. The ammo that didn't rattle I pulled the bullet out, and dumped the powder into a bowl. It was stuck together with mold.... little hairs held the powder in clumps. THAT's a hangfire waiting to happen, and a 42 is not very forgiving with 9 cent a shot ammo. If it leaves the bullet in the barrel because of a semi-dud, the next shot blows up. I don't run diesel fuel in my old RoadRunner, and I don't use 50 year old ammo in a $40,000 gun.

Buy a set of headspace guages. If the rollers won't lock up fully with the GO guage in the chamber, try a different combination of bolt and barrel. Check the length of the ammo, and compare it to the longest guage that the rollers will lock up with. This is done out of the gun, with the bolt and barrel sitting on a table. Make sure the locking rollers extend completely to the outside of the grooves. You can remove the firing pin and try it with a live round if you like. A little loose on headspace seems to make no difference. A little too tight and the rollers don't lock completely and the base of the cartridge blows off from lack of support. A LOT too tight, and the cartridge blows off the back, and can destroy the receiver. I will presume you're running the bolt catch in the bolt. If you're not, then this is part of why the guns blow up. The bolt catch is MANDATORY, not just recommended for full auto. WIth the semi guns, holding the locking rollers tight to prevent a bolt bounce is not a problem. If you've ever struck steel with a hammer and had it bounce, this is what happens with the bolt face and rollers when they hit the barrel extension. The bolt catch prevents, or at least minimizes this. Do the math: At 25 shots a second, the bolt is completely closed for less than 1/100th of a second. It spends almost 1/50th of a second recoiling, then another 1/50th of a second going forward. The bolt is only locked up for a VERY brief split second. It doesn't take much of a screw up with junk ammo to embarrass the shooter.

I've found that the cheapest and safest way to shoot 8mm is to reload it. The MG42 sings a little better song with 8mm than it does .308, but .308 is still cheaper to buy than 8mm is to reload, so I usually run .308 myself. The 42 with .308 still runs like a scalded dog, but I know the difference because I heard it and shot it.
Last edited by JBaum on Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TOM R » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:30 pm

:shock: holy cow batman is that blown open :?: thats got to hurt your wallet and ruin your day
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Postby JBaum » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:45 pm

It wasn't my MG, but I learned quickly from the picture. I heard it was a post-sample that someone blew...... how embarrassing.

I hope the long-winded post above doesn't make me sound like I'm trying to convince anyone that I know it all. I know what I know, and admit what I don't. Anyone who thinks they've seen it all and know it all is certainly known as a fool to others. It wasn't my intention to chastise someone for saving money on ammo..... Like I said, I shoot old 8mm too, I'm just careful about what I put it in.
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Postby TOM R » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:53 pm

HEY i AM ALWAYS RIGHT, ONETIME I THOUGHT I WAS WRONG BUT I WAS MISTAKEN , AND ACTUALY RIGHT :shock: believe that and I'll tell you another :roll:
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Holy (Try a different word.)!!!!

Postby Latama » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:31 pm

:shock: I'm in the process of buying an original C&R MG42 for $40k.
After seeing this post I'm afraid to shoot it. Damm I quess I should look into reloading. Does this happen often?

Abwehr

Ammo

Postby Abwehr » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:56 am

Guys, John is 110% CORRECT about what he is saying. IF you have $40K in a gun, cheap ammo at some point will ruin your day! Although these guns were not made to be "throw-away" guns; they were designed to be made cheaply and plentifull. If one blew up in service, you could usually get another soon. If I had a $40K gun blow, I could NOT replace it. I only shoot the Romanian 8mm steel case in mine, and Aussie .308. These are two I do trust.

Even the German had problems with "Bolt Bounce" and it took them a long time to resolve the problem. If the round fired out of battery, it pretty much destroys the receiver. In Volke's book, there is a good section on the "teething" problems of the MG42.

Several months ago, I had my 1919 out for a run and I had a .308 round of Izzy ammo completly split at the base and haf way up the case. The gun stopped, but was OK. If this had happened in the MG42, I would probably had some real problems. Use Good Ammo in this gun, please!

bluker1

Postby bluker1 » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:54 am

I have shot the romo 8mm and will be ordering more, but I wanted to let people know the yugo 50's ammo doesn't run in the 42. Where did u guys find head space gauges for the 8mm?

Lastly, I've got put the trunion back in the correct place before I rivet it back and I'm wondering if any one know how to determine the location (mine now moves a 1/4 inch back and forth) of the trunion? I've been reading the Mrvang sp? book but it doesn't give a measurement on where the trunion should be located.

thanks,
alan

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Postby Intruder196 » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:22 pm

bluker1 wrote:I have shot the romo 8mm and will be ordering more, but I wanted to let people know the yugo 50's ammo doesn't run in the 42. Where did u guys find head space gauges for the 8mm?

Lastly, I've got put the trunion back in the correct place before I rivet it back and I'm wondering if any one know how to determine the location (mine now moves a 1/4 inch back and forth) of the trunion? I've been reading the Mrvang sp? book but it doesn't give a measurement on where the trunion should be located.

thanks,
alan


The 50's Yugo didnt work all that well in my TNW Mg34 either. The 70's Romo works great as does original WW2 8mm. I bought a ton of the original brass case ammo from J&G Sales when they had it in stock.

My Trunnion fit real tight on the receiver. I dont have any front to rear movement. I could be wrong but I am assuming that it shouldnt have any since any movement while firing would also affect the feed tray, feed cover and barrel release door.

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Postby JBaum » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:40 pm

Bluker1:

8mm Mauser headspace guages are made by Forster (sp?). They sell them on ebay, and any good catalog like Midway should have them. They're around $50 for the set of 3, which is VERY cheap in my mind, considering the possible results of not having them.

The Cam Piece (often called the trunion, but it's not) should not move at all. If it does, the gun isn't safe to shoot, because an erratic locking and unlocking of the barrel and bolt is the result. The result of THAT, is a blown up gun...

There's a slot on the left side of the receiver for the Cam Piece to fit into. It should stay the whole way forward in that slot. If it doesn't, something is really not right.


Latama:

Shoot only modern ammo and it's very unlikely you'll have a problem. Shoot 50-60 year old ammo, and you too can have someone post a picture of your MG on a board where everyone looks at it and says "No (Try a different word.)!". Keep the gun clean, read the manuals. Learn what you're doing and how to do it. Asking questions about what you were doing AFTER the blow up is not very good timing. Wouldn't buy a $40,000 car that's different from anything you've ever driven and not look through the owner's manual would you? Same goes here. This is not a plug for my translated manuals, this is just common sense. Learn what you can about what you're doing. Turning $40,000 into something where people point and say WOW! is not where I want to be. If it happens and you're lucky, you'll be hunting for a new barrel change door and set of rivets. If you're unlucky, you'll be picking shrapnel out of your arm and someone will take a picture like the one I posted. I prefer to increase the odds in my favor as much as possible. The two things that have the greatest effect on the odds are knowledge and using it.


Again, I don't want to sound like I'm God when it comes to the MG42.... there are lots of guys around that know a lot more than I do.... but I've read (or written) the manuals, and been around a while and have seen the barrel change door blow open after hearing the gun speed up - slow down - speed up. I wondered what was going on at the time, and figured it out when I watched blood running down the guy's arm from little brass pieces stuck in him. NOT cool. Afterwards I thought that the guy should have known better.... but no, he just went out and spent $15,000 on an MG42 (only 6 years ago), blew it up with 8 cents a shot ammo, and asked me to fix (replace) the barrel change door for him. When I bought my 42 I knew I'd never make THAT mistake. Learn from others.... it's cheaper.

Toys are for fun. Expensive toys are for more fun. Buying the same expensive toy twice because you blew the first one to pieces through inexperience and lack of knowing what you were doing...... not fun.
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Postby ak47dennis » Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:07 am

I always avoid the yugo ammo I have found it to be terribly corrosive (your barrel will rust off before the bullets gets out, hehe :D ) and its inconsistent even firing it from an AK. The only 8mm I would think about running in a MG42 would be the Romania.
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Postby gearlogo » Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:30 pm

Please do not shoot this stuff in any gun. I shot 900 rounds in a 1919 this weekend and it was crap. Another person had two KB's one bent the top cover and sprayed his son with hot brass. I have decided to not shoot 8mm in my 1919 anymore. I sold my brl at bulletfest and will only shoot 308 from now on. I will prob shoot romanian in my semi 42 but when it's gone I'll go to 308 there also

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Yugo Ammo

Postby Abwehr » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:31 pm

When this stuff first hit the market, I read that it was good ammo, so I thought about buying several cases to run in the MG42. Now I am glad I only bought 1 case! This will be used only in my k98K along with the Ecuadorian ammo. Actually, I love the Ecuadorian ammo, it is acuurate, but the primers sure are hard. Until I replaced the Firing Pin Spring, I had to hit about 10% twice to get it to fire. only 1%- would not fire at all.

I guess I need to start shooting the 98K more since I have another case of ammo for it, LOL

medved

Yugo 50's Ammo

Postby medved » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:31 pm

Have had good luck with 52 dated ammo in my MG 34 but have heard horror stories with 56 dated Yugo. As a result I only shoot My 42 in the German surplus J&G had a few years ago but now almost exclusively shoot it it Portugese 308. With a 40K gun is not worth the risk with some of the questionable 8mm out there.

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Postby M1 Tanker » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:48 pm

Is this the stuff in sealed metal tins, then packed in cardboard boxes?

Abwehr

Postby Abwehr » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:54 pm

My Yugo is in sealed metal tins and two tins per wood crate

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Postby gearlogo » Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:39 pm

The ammo looks good but there are bad rounds in all lots. I'd thik twice about putting them through a 42


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