MG42 old style barrel ???

Anything MG42 related.
fab
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MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by fab » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:41 am

Hi,

in a MG42 waffenmeister German manual i found a picture of a "old style MG42 barrel". (pic on top).

Image

Does someone has informations about this barrel?
perhaps a pic :mrgreen:

Thanks

Fab.

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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by JBaum » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:21 am

The difference is shown in the picture in your message. The muzzles are different sized. Details are in the translated Armorer's manual HDv 181/7.
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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by Bil » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:39 am

Remember those Time-Life books? You got one to start out,next thing you have to have the whole set,and the dam n things were all over the house,and they just kept coming out with more.Of course you didn't want to miss anything,so you kept getting the next one,and before long you went crazy? :? I am starting to think John has figured out their marteting plan! :lol: I wonder how many manuals there are,anyway? Guess I just keep getting them till I find out. :? ---bil
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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by Chuckm » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:36 pm

What Bil said!!!!!!!

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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:58 pm

WHAT BIL SAID ! ! ! !

(hmm... I already have a copy of John's H. Dv. 181/7)
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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by fab » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:28 pm

yes John i know this armurer manual D 181/7 because i bought it to you :)
but only one small sentence on page 61 wich speaks more about the bushing than the barrel...
it's not your fault , you only translated this manual.. :mrgreen:
but i would like more information concerning this barrel... picture, dimension...., because i would like to find one for my collection and at this moment i still don't know what it's look like.

8)

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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by JBaum » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:54 pm

I would think that the early style barrel is more rare than the bolt holder made of sheet metal, or the recoil spring tube, or an early style bolt. I have at least one of each of those, but I've never even seen the early style barrel, not even modern pictures of one.

As they were shot until they were worn out, they would have been sent back to the factory and melted to make more barrels. I think that hunting for one could be a lifetime endeavor. I wish you luck.

And by the way, guys....... more manuals are on the way. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA (laughs like the wicked witch of the west) :mrgreen:
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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by Blanksguy » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:26 pm

Musgrave's early book about "German Machineguns" talks a little about problem of a few different size (inner-profile-?) barrel-bearings....and we already know about the different-length (outside-length) barrel-earings for the MG42.
I believe that the ones that he talks about were early capture weapons.

Best bet is to do just like the others have said (after buying the books/manuals)......take the photos and enlarge them to see the sizes/profiles a little better.
Then possible talking those photos and send a letter over to the German Magazine "DWJ" and ask them if they can tell you more. They did a couple articles on the MG42 and may have more information on the slight differences/sizes/lengths of these two parts (IE: Early MG42 Barrel vs. Later MG42 Barrel outside/muzzle contour.........and the different barrel-bearings that would have been used with each.

Then let us know what you find out as we expand our knowledge.....
Regards,
RichardS in MI.
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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by Latama » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:37 pm

As soon as the transfer comes in on my next 42 I will take a pic of the barrel. It has an early barrel in it. The end of the barrel is fanned out.

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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by fab » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:10 am

Thanks a lot !!! :D

Tim g

Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by Tim g » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:34 pm

Can I assume the differing profiles of the muzzle is to do with the recoil relationship to the booster cone??

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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by TactAdv » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:38 am

The following pictures of a documented MG39/41 barrel, which is the pattern for these barrels you all are discussing.

You can see in the first picture that the profile of the muzzles are indeed different as others have pointed out.
Image

What is not generally realized is WHY. It was found that the gun lacked sufficient reserve energy for declining conditions so the interface between the muzzle gas seal and the barrel bearing was changed to reduce the calculated blow-by thereby increasing the reserve energies available

That is not all that is different. You can see in the second picture here that the bolt locking recesses are also changed from the original configuration, this is an attempt to prevent premature cracking in that location. Original MG39/41 barrel on bottom, adopted MG42 barrel on top.
Image

Now the real interesting thing is to examine the markings on the barrel tube itself. These markings shown are unlike any other MG42 barrel markings because, well, they aren't! If you notice the pattern of the codes they are consistent with early production MG34 markings, this is because this is actually an MG34 barrel that was turned down to the newer MG39/41 profile! The shank threads are the same only the exterior profiles and lengths are different. Deciphering the codes shown, you will notice first off the date of manufacture is 1940, with a prime contractor code of 'cra' for the (later named) 'Maget' firm. 1940 is way too early for any normal MG42 production, but is consistent with MG34 barrel production. This fact becomes even more interesting when you take note of the code of 'aaj', the code for Friedenshutte AG, which was only the raw steel contractor for certain MG34 barrels. The practice of steel subcontractor codings was dropped in early 1941, long before the MG42 was even close to production status. This clearly indicates that early pre-production MG39/41 barrels were in fact fabricated from existing stocks of MG34 barrels.
Image

MG34Biker

Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by MG34Biker » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:52 am

Outstanding pics and great info. Thanks!

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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by Bil » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:44 pm

What he said! Thank you for taking the time and effort to put this together.Very interesting. ---bil
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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by Blanksguy » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:00 pm

Wasn't there also some added information in Musgrave's book "German Machineguns" about different Barrel-Bearings (?).....not the different lengths, but to match up with the profiles of the different muzzles of early (MG39/41) vs. late (MG42).

What did they look like as far as sizes, machining, "profiles"....and possibly markings.....(?).

Regards, RichardS in MI.
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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by TactAdv » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:13 pm

Blanksguy wrote:Wasn't there also some added information in Musgrave's book "German Machineguns" about different Barrel-Bearings (?).....not the different lengths, but to match up with the profiles of the different muzzles of early (MG39/41) vs. late (MG42).
Yes, with the barrels themselves there are rearward incompatabilities, forward compatibility was assured.

Old BBL + Old bearing = Ok
Old BBL + New bearing = Ok
New BBL + New bearing = Ok
New BBL + old bearing = NO GO

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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by Blanksguy » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:08 am

....so what did the "old" barrel-bearing look like as far as "inside-profile" (?).......

....and....

......with our semi-only SA-42 builds, what are the possibilities of rearward-pressure loss from a worn muzzle-to-bearing inner-surface not sealing off the rearward pressure...(?)....or the incombatability of parts not matching up (?).

Regards, RichardS in MI.
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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by TactAdv » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:25 pm

I have been asked to post additional pictures of the markings and stamps of the extension of the previously shown MG39/41 barrel.

Here is the front face showing the prime contractor code 'cra'(Maget), and waA11 waffenAmpt stempel:
Image
Image


Here's the obverse showing again the inhouse waA11 stempel:
Image


Shoulders showing subcontractor and inspectors stempels:
Image
Image

And lastly here's the bore slugging indicator after proofing. The '7.90' indicates one of the tighter bore measures that could be accepted:
Image

Lastly, here's a view inside the locking recesses showing no visible wear or burnishing of the finish.
Image


You will notice the superb condition of the metal, both in terms of the condition of the visible original machining marks and the unblemished original finish remaining intact in all the inside recesses and contact surfaces. This barrel is unfired by all indications, likely a spare. (the dark goo is dried preservative coating):
-TomH

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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by searchandfind » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:11 pm

Hi guys, I know this is an old thread, but I have 3 Maget barrels in my collection which show the evolutionnsteps.

Number 1: It is the old style barrel. It has has the old style muzzle and the old style locking piece. The barrel is marked with "cyw", a makers mark, "cra", "eagle 11" and the barrel diameter "7,91". The locking piece is marked with "cra" "eagle WaA11", "Ka", "S" and a makers mark.

Number 2: It is the new style barrel. It has has the new style muzzle and the old style locking piece. The barrel is marked with "Cc", "cra 5" in a shield, "eagle 11" and the barrel diameter "7,91". The locking piece is marked with "cra", "eagle 11", "DE8", "cra 5" in a shield and an "a" (electropencilled).

Number 3: It is the new style barrel. It has has the new style muzzle and the new style locking piece. The barrel is marked with "Er", "cra 5" in a shield and "eagle 11". The barrel diameter is missing and the complete barrel is phosphated. The locking piece is marked with "swd", "cra 5" in a shield, "FK8" and an "a" (electropencilled).

(I did not mention a few really small marks)

See the pictures:
Attachments
Gesamtansicht.jpg
Mündungen.jpg
Laufcodierungen.jpg
Verriegelungsstücke oben.jpg
Verriegelungsstücke seitlich.jpg

fab
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Re: MG42 old style barrel ???

Post by fab » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:00 pm

Interesting thanks !!!

according the Musgrave's book they begun to produce MG42 in 1942 and stoped producing this kind of barrel in November 42, in this thread we seen:
a "cra-40" so 1940 dated
and "cra" un-dated
:)
and i know a cra-42
:mrgreen:

and i have a 1942 dated new style barrel...

that's means the early MG42 barrel were dated as were the MG34 ones
so how is it possible to have a undated old patent one ???
and how explain a 1940 dated MG42 barrel ???

Sometime live is difficult to understand
:mrgreen:

Fab

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