Received IO 8mm barrel today.
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Intruder196
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Received IO 8mm barrel today.
Since the GB went belly up I ordered a barrel last Monday and Fedex dropped it off today. It is absolutely mint and has a nice marking on the barrel extension. Check it out..............
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Intruder196
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Re: Barrels
It is marked cra 5 inside a small shield. Any idea on how to determine the date?Abwehr wrote:Intruder,
What is the manufacturer's stamp on the Barrel itself? Mine have been "cyq" stamped. I hope mine arrived yesterday! I am out of town and won't be home until sometime tonight, I need to call the wife to see if they left a package. Nice Barrels HUH!
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Abwehr
Barrel
Intruder,
I just got home and tore open the package from IO. My barrels are like new and marked the same as yours..... "cra". This is Maget, Berlin. I have no idea what the manufacturing date is, but I would assume it is late war since they don't appear to have been used. If we knew where they came from, we may have an idea, but none so far.
The Barrel and Trunnion are both made by Maget, whereas my other barrels are "cyq" (Spreewerk) with the Trunnion part manufactured by someone else and assembled by Spreewerk. These also are in like new condition so I assumed that they are late war also, and never got to the front lines.
At least they were Waffenamt stamped so they were checked closely and should be excellent barrels. There are stories that the Germans stopped checking and stamping the Waffenamt late in the war, but critical parts were stamped when the Russians were "at the door". Again, I am assuming, but these were probably still in the factories or a depot because shipping had almost stopped near the end. I sure would like to know the real story behind where these have been for years!
I just got home and tore open the package from IO. My barrels are like new and marked the same as yours..... "cra". This is Maget, Berlin. I have no idea what the manufacturing date is, but I would assume it is late war since they don't appear to have been used. If we knew where they came from, we may have an idea, but none so far.
The Barrel and Trunnion are both made by Maget, whereas my other barrels are "cyq" (Spreewerk) with the Trunnion part manufactured by someone else and assembled by Spreewerk. These also are in like new condition so I assumed that they are late war also, and never got to the front lines.
At least they were Waffenamt stamped so they were checked closely and should be excellent barrels. There are stories that the Germans stopped checking and stamping the Waffenamt late in the war, but critical parts were stamped when the Russians were "at the door". Again, I am assuming, but these were probably still in the factories or a depot because shipping had almost stopped near the end. I sure would like to know the real story behind where these have been for years!
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Abwehr
Waffenamt Stamp on Barrel
Intruder,
Can you tell me the Waffenamt Stamp number under tha acceptance Eagle? Mine just has the Eagle/11 and I know that Inspector No. 11 was at Maget, Berlin.
This is not definitive by any means, but your stamp has the "WaA**". Normally, the WaA** stamp MAY be earlier than the stamp with just the number under the Eagle. There are no hard and fast rules, but an indicator.
One thing about the Depot delivery system is they used the "Last in, First out" (LIFO) system of inventory distribution. This is the reason that you could have a 1940 holster that was actually mated with a 1942 Luger and this would be correct.
We will probably never know the mfg. date?????
Can you tell me the Waffenamt Stamp number under tha acceptance Eagle? Mine just has the Eagle/11 and I know that Inspector No. 11 was at Maget, Berlin.
This is not definitive by any means, but your stamp has the "WaA**". Normally, the WaA** stamp MAY be earlier than the stamp with just the number under the Eagle. There are no hard and fast rules, but an indicator.
One thing about the Depot delivery system is they used the "Last in, First out" (LIFO) system of inventory distribution. This is the reason that you could have a 1940 holster that was actually mated with a 1942 Luger and this would be correct.
We will probably never know the mfg. date?????
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Intruder196
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- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: North Carolina
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Abwehr
Barrel Stamps
Intruder,
Thanks for the information! I THINK I have been able to find more info on your stamps with closer dating. Here is what I found.......
"ayf" is B. Giepel GMBH, Waffenfabrik Erma, Erfurt, Thuringia. This plant appears to be a part of the Erma Werk, but at least connected to them someway, located in the town of Erfurt, and the Thuringia area.
The Waffenamt number "280" IS correct for this plant. This particular inspector was located in the area from 1935 to 1945
1935 - 1937 he was at the Erfurt und Geipel facility inspecting K98k rifles
1938 - 1940 he was at the Erma facility inspecting K98k rifles, stocks, and parts made for BSW (Berlin-Suhler-Waffen und Fahrzeugwerke. Also had a short time at Mauser Werke, Borsigwalde in 1938 inspecting K98k rifles.
1940 - 1941 he was ath the Erma facility inspecting MP40 magazines and still accepting the K98k parts. During this time he was inspecting K98k rifles at the "ax" plant (Erfurter Maschinenfabrik, Berthold, Geipel GMBH)
1942 - 1944 he was inspecting K98k rifles at the Sauer und Sohns plant in Suhl, Thuringia
1944 - 1945 he was back at Erfurt full time still inspecting MP40 parts, K98k parts, MP44 parts, and other minor parts (looks like your Barrel extension)
Your barrel with the "cra" stamp should have the Eagle/WaA11 or just Eagle/11. This inspector was at Maget from 1942 until 1945
It appears Inspector "280" was a very busy guy, but he was the leader of a team at each faclity that worked for him so he did not actually inspect each part, weapon, etc.BUT, he had the ulimate responsibility that the part inspected met the stringent Governement requirements for the part. Be assured, the individual inspector did not allow a bad part to out as he was also responsible. As I stated, the inspection program did keep up their activities until the plant was overrun. The German Military specifications were much tighter than their commercial speciications and also more stringent than the US specs for a lot of parts. Now, the surface finish may have deteriorated, but not the operationa efficiency. Look at the US and British finishes on ordnance, they deteriorated as the war progressed to speed up production. The Germans (Albert Speer) made the correct decision to have a rougher finish, but maintain operational high standards. Late War weapons were good!
The inspector at Maget, "WaA11 or 11" stayed at this faclity until his carrer abruptly ended and was dedicated to the MG42 program. This is speculation, but most likely the Barrel extension was made at Erma/Geipel, shipped to Maget and assembled there for new MG42s and for spare parts.
Hope this helps a little!!
Thanks for the information! I THINK I have been able to find more info on your stamps with closer dating. Here is what I found.......
"ayf" is B. Giepel GMBH, Waffenfabrik Erma, Erfurt, Thuringia. This plant appears to be a part of the Erma Werk, but at least connected to them someway, located in the town of Erfurt, and the Thuringia area.
The Waffenamt number "280" IS correct for this plant. This particular inspector was located in the area from 1935 to 1945
1935 - 1937 he was at the Erfurt und Geipel facility inspecting K98k rifles
1938 - 1940 he was at the Erma facility inspecting K98k rifles, stocks, and parts made for BSW (Berlin-Suhler-Waffen und Fahrzeugwerke. Also had a short time at Mauser Werke, Borsigwalde in 1938 inspecting K98k rifles.
1940 - 1941 he was ath the Erma facility inspecting MP40 magazines and still accepting the K98k parts. During this time he was inspecting K98k rifles at the "ax" plant (Erfurter Maschinenfabrik, Berthold, Geipel GMBH)
1942 - 1944 he was inspecting K98k rifles at the Sauer und Sohns plant in Suhl, Thuringia
1944 - 1945 he was back at Erfurt full time still inspecting MP40 parts, K98k parts, MP44 parts, and other minor parts (looks like your Barrel extension)
Your barrel with the "cra" stamp should have the Eagle/WaA11 or just Eagle/11. This inspector was at Maget from 1942 until 1945
It appears Inspector "280" was a very busy guy, but he was the leader of a team at each faclity that worked for him so he did not actually inspect each part, weapon, etc.BUT, he had the ulimate responsibility that the part inspected met the stringent Governement requirements for the part. Be assured, the individual inspector did not allow a bad part to out as he was also responsible. As I stated, the inspection program did keep up their activities until the plant was overrun. The German Military specifications were much tighter than their commercial speciications and also more stringent than the US specs for a lot of parts. Now, the surface finish may have deteriorated, but not the operationa efficiency. Look at the US and British finishes on ordnance, they deteriorated as the war progressed to speed up production. The Germans (Albert Speer) made the correct decision to have a rougher finish, but maintain operational high standards. Late War weapons were good!
The inspector at Maget, "WaA11 or 11" stayed at this faclity until his carrer abruptly ended and was dedicated to the MG42 program. This is speculation, but most likely the Barrel extension was made at Erma/Geipel, shipped to Maget and assembled there for new MG42s and for spare parts.
Hope this helps a little!!
When trying to "date" an MG42 (or MG34 Barrel-Assembly).....remember, that the "Bottle-Neck" of the German production was in the Barrel-Extension........when barrels were worn-out/shot-out.......they were returned to "DEPOT" to have new barrels installed on used barrel-extentions.
What you may be reading off of your Barrel-Markings is from two different dates and manufacurers? A very close examination may reviel signs of rebarreling.
RichardS
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net
What you may be reading off of your Barrel-Markings is from two different dates and manufacurers? A very close examination may reviel signs of rebarreling.
RichardS
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net
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Abwehr
Barrels
Blanksguy,
Very good point about the re-barreling! One thing that I have read is that Barrels and Extensions were made by seperate companys so the supply could be maintained in case one plant was out of commission for a while.
The Barrel assemblies I have received from IO appear to be new production and not re-works, but you never know???
Very good point about the re-barreling! One thing that I have read is that Barrels and Extensions were made by seperate companys so the supply could be maintained in case one plant was out of commission for a while.
The Barrel assemblies I have received from IO appear to be new production and not re-works, but you never know???
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Abwehr
Barrel Stamps
On the barrel, above the "cra" manufacturer's stamp is a capital "C" and a lower case "n". Any idea what this means?
I was thinking that this may mean the Barrel contains Chromium and Nickle in the steel, but this is speculation. You guys go any thoughts on this?
I was thinking that this may mean the Barrel contains Chromium and Nickle in the steel, but this is speculation. You guys go any thoughts on this?
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avanarts
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Abwehr
Barrel Removal/Replacement
The Barrel is screwed into the extension and then there is a "Peen Punch" where the Barrel and Extension join. This was common to replace shot out Barrels during th war and was performed by the local Waffenmeister.
I think I rmember reading that the threads are right hand. This looks like it would be a fun project.
I think I rmember reading that the threads are right hand. This looks like it would be a fun project.
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Intruder196
- Major
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- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: North Carolina
I was just browsing IO's site this morn and noticed they have "temporaily out of stock" by the MG42 8mm barrel.
Looks like they really didnt have the inventory to support the buy like they told shortrnd.
Glad I bought another now. Who knows what condition the next batch will be in assuming there will be more coming.
Looks like they really didnt have the inventory to support the buy like they told shortrnd.
Glad I bought another now. Who knows what condition the next batch will be in assuming there will be more coming.
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Abwehr
IO Barrels
I agree with you "intruder", gotta get the stuff when they have it. There have been too many times when I did not buy something thinking it would be around for a long time, and then there were none at a decent price. Look at the price of the Sten Kits, the best price you can find now is $50-75 ea. The AMD65 Ak kits that TAPCO had for $60 are now going for $135-150.
But with something like the Barrels, I am now speculating that once they are gone, there will be no more. I hope IO does get more in, but I think I have enough to last me for a loooooong time!
But with something like the Barrels, I am now speculating that once they are gone, there will be no more. I hope IO does get more in, but I think I have enough to last me for a loooooong time!