Waffenamps on sight parts?

[KATZBALGER]

I recently acquired a real nice set of sight parts, both front and rear.
Question being... Do these parts normally bare waffenamps?
It seems to me that the rear site should have at least some type of acceptance marks, even if they are post war / MG3.
Thanks.

[Reichpapers]

I'm not familiar with post war stuff, but wartime weapon proofing started to taper off toward the end of the war as many of the proofing employees were called to watr service at the front(s). LAter weapon production pieces are frequently found devoid of any proof marks...they seemed to continue marking major assemblies and started to not stamp smaller parts. Of course this was not always the case, as some manufacturing plants continued the practice...or at least the waffenamt did.

[KATZBALGER]

Makes sense.

But I'm thinking now...
Do I have a MG42 sight or MG3?

Being that the 42 was 8mm and the MG3 was 7.62 NATO, the graduations could be different...right?

I don't have another to compare, unforunately.
Perhaps someone more in the know can help me out here.

[SCREECH]

MY REAR SIGHT BASE AND REAR SIGHT BLADE ARE BOTH WAFFENAMPT, REAR SIGHT BASE IS STAMPED ON THE BOTTOM AT THE TOP OF THE HIGHEST GRADUATION, SIGHT BLADE JUST BELOW THE V NOTCH. MINE CAME WITH THE COLE'S .308 KIT I PURCHASED, PERHAPS JUST LUCK OF THE DRAW. I DONT SEE ANY MARKINGS ON THE FRONT SIGHT PARTS.

[TOM R]

the rear site on my aa kit is also w/amp marked graduations on the left side go from 2 up to 20 guessing these are meters(there are grad #'s on left and right)

[Jason]

this might be a dumb question but what is a waffenamp? Is it the eagle clutching the swasticka?

[Reichpapers]

Basically the a specific office of the German armed forces which inspected and proofed all ordnance related items. The markes made by the Waffenamt is easy to identify, it will be some type of spread winged eagle with a number under it....some have swastikas some just the bird. underneath the eagle there will be a number or even WaA followed by a number (i.e. WaA280)

[Reichpapers]

I can get more in depth if that was too short....lookign back the answer seemed a bit short for what the Waffenamt was.

[Jason]

I dont want to hijack this thread but I looked and on the back of my reciever there are two 'waffenamps'. an eagle with swasticka and underneath WaA11. that is why I was curious.

[Abwehr]

Guys,

Here is a short history of the Waffenamt:

A Short History of the Heereswaffenamt (HwaA)
The Third Reich

As Hitler had promised, his military rearmament and conscription programs soon engendered a dramatic reversal of Germany's unemployment problem. By the end of 1936, the number of registered unemployed had dropped to 1,098,000, and by June 1938 there were only 292,000 persons out of work. Soon there were none, and the shortage of work was rapidly replaces by a shortage of manpower.

Industry met this challenge head-on by increasing the number of working hours in a day. By the outbreak of World War II, the workers in many German armaments factories were working ten and twelve hour days. Eliminating unemployment by firing up Germany's armament industries to full production capacity did not come cheaply: over 90 billion RM would be spent for this rearmament from 1933 to 1937.


The task of overseeing this gigantic rearmament process was given to the Heeresabnahmestelle (the Army Acceptance Organization, commonly referred to as the Abnahme), a subsidiary of the Heereswaffenamt (the Army Weapons Office). As shown in the following table, the Abnahme quickly outgrew its small initial size:

Category WaA
Abnahme

Officers 271
71

Beamte 352
234

Unteroffizeren 174
132

Mannschaften 2,800
2,637


By 1940 the Abnahme consisted of 25,000 men in five departments in 16 inspection areas, augmented by specially selected plant personnel who were assigned to assist the Waffenamt inspectors in each manufacturing facility. Later, in the middle of 1944, approximately 8,000 of these Abnahme inspectors were "freed for service at the front".


Organization and Responsibilities of the WaA


The Heeres-Abnahmewesen was responsible for the testing and acceptance of all weapons, equipment and ammunition before delivery to the Wehrmacht. Inspections were carried out according to detailed guidelines called "Technische Lieferbedingungen" (TLs) prepared by the various Waffenprufamter (WaPruf) departments as follows:

Army Weapon Department (WaA) Chief: Artillery General Leeb
Dept. for Development and Testing(WaPruf) Chief: Lt. Gen. John
Wa Pruf No.
Department

1. Ammunition

2. Inf Abt: pistols, rifles, telescopes, Oberst Dr. Hadlen
sights, auto. pistols,

Leader: Oberst Kittel - machine guns, self loaders, Ministeralrat Dr. Peter -assault rifles and accessories. Wa Pruf 2 I

Rifles and revolvers Leader: Major Eiserbeck

Oberamtmann von Einsiedel Wa Pruf 2 II

Machine Guns Leader: Obersteutnant Breitenbach
Dipl. Ing. Maushart
Dipl. Ing. Eckart
Wa Pruf 2 III

General Equipment Leader: Oberstleutnant Haenel

4. Artillery

5. Pioniere (Engineer) Equipment Fest

Fortress Weapons and Equipment

6. Vehicles and Panzerkampfwagen (tanks)

7. Signal Equipment

8. Optical and Observation Equipment

9. Chemical Weapons (smoke, etc)

10. Rockets

11. Administration

F . Forschung (research)


In addition to the inspections the Waffenamt Prufwesen was charged with the design and development of practically everything the Army used, except food, clothing and housing. Lt Gen. Richard John headed this office during almost the entire war.

The inspection officers and officials of the Abnahme assigned to the various armament factories were originally Army armourers who had been given civil service status with the rank of Leutnant (Waffenamt Second Lieuenant). When the rearmament program began, Waffenamt inspection departments were established in each factory and armourers were encouraged to apply for positions there. In preparation for their new duties they were given a four-week course at the Heereswaffenmeisterschule (Army Armourers School). The course ended with a test for Technical Inspector which raised the rank of each successful applicant to that of Oberleutnant (First Lieutenant). At the beginning of 1935, all inspection officials in the newly created program started on an equal footing as Technical Inspectors, but by the start of the war in 1939 nearly all of them had been promoted to Technical Inspector First Class with a rank of Hauptmann (Captain).

On the average, ten officials were employed in the inspection department of each factory manufacturing weapons. Several Ordnance and Technical sergeants were also assigned to each contractor by the Waffenamt organization. At the Mauser Werke plant in Obernfdorf, for example, the head of the inspection team was a Technical Administrator with the rank of Major.

The team's duty encompassed inspection of the entire production activity within the plant; not only final acceptance of the finished product, but all ongoing inspections of each individual part. As this was beyond the capability of the ten-man team itself, some of Mauser personnel were assigned to assist the team in its inspection; however, all test firings, which were performed by factory personnel remained under the strict supervision of the Abnahme inspectors.

When a Waffenamt officer assumed command of an inspection team he received a commission number and a correspondingly numbered set of Abnahmestempel or acceptance stamps, commonly known as the Waffenamt Stamps. If the officer was transferred to another factory he took his stamps with him, but left the rest of the inspection team for the next officer. These transfers were not uncommon, and this can be seen by the change in the Waffenamt Stamp number change in those used on the P.08 pistol during its manufacture at the Mauser Werke Plant. As we know, the Heereswaffenamt personnel, and in particular the members of the Abnahme, were intimately involved with every phase of P.08 production.

Instructions to the Waffenamt inspectors assigned to the various plants were first issued in early 1936. During the course of the production history of the P.08, these instructions were continually updated or changed, and many additions were inserted. As is standard practice with this type of military manual, changes to individual pages were accomplished by issuing a new page with the changes, with the date of issue noted at the bottom. The OKH declared these manuals Staatsgeheimnis (State Secrets), although not all pages were so stamped. These changes allowed the inspectors to lower the standards of finish we see on firearms as the war progressed and still provide the German Wehrmact with a quality product. These standards were utilized until the very end of the war to assure the weapons reaching the troops were safe to use.

[Jason]

WOW great explanation. I will be printing it out to keep it. the knowledge you guys have amazes me. thanks again

[TOM R]

eagle? I thought it was a pheonix bird, you know the whole 3rd reich rising from the ashes thing

[Reichpapers]

Ugh, where did you dig that up. The Germans call the bird the adler...which translates into eagle.

[Abwehr]

Guys,

This info is part of my time dealing with German Lugers. Luger collectors are a tough bunch to deal with. There are so many slight variations, and no real back-up to confirm answers to questions. I have a nice collection of WWII Lugers, but it is not fun dealing with some of the collectors, so I quietly read any new Luger info, and pass on the Forums now.

When there are questions that I know where to find info, be assured I will try to pass it along.

[Reichpapers]

It was a great article...

[KATZBALGER]

Well, after a good cleaning, I found a very light WaA on the top of the front sight. I guess I didn't look hard enough. The rear still didn't give up it's story...

Tom R,
My sight also is graduated from "2" to "20" on the top. "3" to "20" on the bottom. Both sides reflect the same number on both sides, at the same position of elevation. I would have expected the numbers to accend higher on the bottom, as one would find on a flip up post. I guess this method was easier for a gunner to adjust elevation, whilst keeping his head down.

Now... my NEXT problem is that the front kit is missing the two "pins" that secure the sight / booster catch assembly to the front of the shroud.

I'm not aware of exactly what these "pins" are suppost to be.

Can someone with a front sight still originally intact please provide me with a description of what was used to pin this assembly together?

I'm thinking roll pins would be too easy... perhaps bar stock, dimpled and peened? Any help greatly appreiated.

Over.

[TOM R]

i think roll pins but both my sights were dissasembled when the kit came so I don't realy know what goes where some stuff is obvious but but actual assembly is

[Jason]

I just used roll pins and they seem to work fine.

ton's of pins and stuff at ace hardware